AADL Talks To: Genie Parker

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 4:30pm

Genie Parker was the former "Minister of Foreign Affairs" for the White Panther Party, a leader in the Rainbow People's Party, and a candidate for the Human Rights Party in Ann Arbor's 3rd Ward in 1972. In this interview, Genie recalls life at the Hill Street commune where she lived from the late 1960s through early 1970s and reflects on the personalities of some of the people she lived and worked with, including Leni Sinclair, David Sinclair, artist Gary Grimshaw, and White Panther co-founder, Pun Plamondon.

Transcript

• [00:00:05.29] AMY: Hi, this is Amy.
• [00:00:06.65] ANDREW: And this is Andrew, and in this episode, AADL talks to Genie Parker.
• [00:00:13.30] AMY: Genie recalls her life at the Hill Street commune, where she lived from the late 1960s through early 1970s and reflects on the personalities of some of the people she lived and worked with, including Leni Sinclair, David Sinclair, artist Gary Grimshaw, and White Panther co-founder Pun Plamondon.
• [00:00:30.69] GENIE PARKER: My father was in the military. He was a high-ranking military Air Force officer. So I moved around the world a lot, traveled a whole lot. I had promised them that I would go to a private girls' school for at least a year, so I did. I went to a private girls' school for a year. I ended up going for two years, because they wanted me to come back, and I did. I decided to go back.
• [00:00:54.03] But by that time, I had started smoking pot. That was-- let's see, I graduated from high school in 1965, so I had started smoking pot that year, and met a bunch of people, and did different things. I didn't know how weird I was, but I knew I was different. Always had been, a little.
• [00:01:14.74] I mean, there was only beatniks, first. There weren't hippies for quite a while. It was beatniks. And I remember people telling me about a place that we should go, called Antioch College, in Ohio. Is it in Ohio? Yeah, it's in Ohio.
• [00:01:30.43] And so I told my parents that I was going to spend the summer with from a friend in Birmingham, Michigan. She went to the private girls' school that I went to, and she lived in Birmingham. And the idea was that my boyfriend at the time wanted to dodge the draft, and we had a couple other friends that wanted to do the same thing.
• [00:01:50.84] So we all hitch-hiked, got to Antioch, and dropped acid for the first time. So the world changed. Everything was different from then on.
• [00:01:59.92] We ended up hitch-hiking to Detroit, because we wanted to get across the border to get into Canada where he would be free from the draft, and just never left. We were walking down the street and some people-- it was just me and my boyfriend at that point. The other people, I don't know where they went. They were gone somewhere. But we were walking down the street in downtown Detroit.
• [00:02:21.20] And we must have looked like hippies. Some people drove up in a car, and got out, and said, oh, you need to go to the Artists' Workshop, because that's where you'll be comfortable. And you'll meet some people that'll help take care of you.
• [00:02:33.61] So we went there, and I just never left. That's where I met John, and Leni, and Pun, and everybody. And I never left. My boyfriend did-- he went back down. It was down south, where we were from. So he went back, and I stayed there, and then I just never left.
• [00:02:49.70] AMY: When you got there and presumably all started talking about your ideals, your beliefs? Were you feeling like you were right already there?
• [00:02:58.97] GENIE PARKER: Well, not really. I mean, at first it was just a cultural thing. I mean, when you think of culture, culture is what? The clothes you wear, the food you eat, the music you listen to, how you look, what you think about.
• [00:03:11.08] And no, we didn't talk a lot. It was just a bunch of people getting together and they would put out poetry books that they mimeographed, literally put on a mimeograph machine and stapled together. And different people from around the country had heard about John 'cause he had been busted. And a lot of people, I think, were-- the political and the cultural lines had not come together at that point. It was pretty much totally cultural.
• [00:03:38.53] And yet, they kept attacking us, and we had to find out, well, why? It was very strange that they would attack so hard for just for being, looking different. And this is a free country? What does that mean?
• [00:03:53.84] I mean, it was so strange. It was like we were pushed into being political. We hadn't planned on it. We didn't mean to be. But it was-- or at least that's how I felt about, that we were literally pushed into it.
• [00:04:07.12] And the Black Panthers contacted us, I think, because-- I can't even remember now. Did they contact us, or we contacted them? But they had similar problems, you know, in that they were being attacked. And you couldn't count on any authorities to help you, because they were the ones that were attacking you.
• [00:04:23.60] So we started-- we had enormous amounts of esteem for the Black Panthers because of what they were doing, especially the programs they did. You know, free breakfast for children, just taking care of their community, and policing it themselves, even. Because they knew the police weren't going to help them, so they had to learn how to police it themselves.
• [00:04:48.72] So they were kind of a model in a way for us. Although to think of being the White Panthers-- it hadn't occurred to us. It wasn't something we were about until we were kind of pushed into it. We had to protect ourselves.
• [00:05:03.69] So it wasn't political at first. It was pretty much cultural. It was hippies getting together, playing music, going to the park. We ate different food, we became very aware-- the concept of "you are what you eat," you know, made so much sense. That's what makes your body, is what you eat.
• [00:05:23.38] But there was no such thing as ecology. There was no word, "ecology." Nobody had ever thought about it in that sense. I mean, the oceans were vast enough that we could dump stuff into them for the rest of eternity, and it would never affect it, is the feeling that big business still has to this day, I think, to some degree.
• [00:05:47.73] And how to bring children up in a school, how to make a school interesting and fun and not just a bunch of rote learning, was a new concept. Well, it wasn't a totally new concept, but it wasn't mainstream. And to share of things, and to actually take care of each other, was just not the way things were done.
• [00:06:15.01] And yet, for us, it was all very common and very obvious, and very relaxed. And again, it wasn't until they pushed us into it that we became political and realized that we were going to have to become political to make any kind of real change.
• [00:06:30.94] And then when available in the 18-year-old vote came along, that was like this big opportunity, you know. Hopefully things would actually change, and we'd get people in political office who would be able to define things differently and do things differently.
• [00:06:45.10] ANDREW: When you were in Detroit, were you living on Warren-Forest, were you living with the other Trans-Love Energies folks?
• [00:06:53.76] GENIE PARKER: Yep.
• [00:06:54.07] ANDREW: What-- can you describe a little bit about what life was like living there? Like, how do you guys spend your days?
• [00:07:01.76] GENIE PARKER: Well, you know, none of us had jobs, in a way. So it was like trying to figure out how to make enough money to pay the rent and get some food. The Fifth Estate newspaper was right downstairs from us, so we would go out and hawk it on the streets and make a little bit of money to go buy some yogurt or something to eat.
• [00:07:24.05] It was a nice life. I mean, I remember it really well. I loved living there. It was an upstairs apartment, right on the corner. I'm sure you've seen pictures of it, probably. And everybody had their own rooms. We tried to stay out of each other's way and help each other as much as we could. Leni had had Sunny at that point. Sunny had just been born, so there was a baby that we all tried to help with, in a way, to help take care of.
• [00:07:54.61] And it wasn't a huge place, but let's see, Grimshaw was there with Judy, his first wife. And then it was me and Pun, and there was another guy-- god, I can't even remember his name. [LAUGHS] And Leni and John, and I don't know, maybe one or two other people. And other people would come and go.
• [00:08:21.41] And I wasn't there from the beginning. In the beginning, I lived on the street for a while, so I just stayed where I could, and where I could find places. But they were always there at the Artists' Workshop. And then eventually Pun and I met and started hanging out, and that's when I moved in there.
• [00:08:37.33] ANDREW: Pun sort of describes his role there as, he was sort of a jack-of-all-trades. Like, whatever needed to be done, he would do it. Is that sort of what you were doing as well?
• [00:08:44.83] GENIE PARKER: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. He was like John's right-hand man. He was there to take care of anything or do anything they needed doing.
• [00:08:50.88] And they'd started working with the bands-- that's where the primary income came from. Well, that's not true. Not primary, but that was a major part of it, was the bands, and how to develop that. But yeah, Pun was John's right-hand man.
• [00:09:10.87] ANDREW: Had the police harassment already-- was that already in place by the time you were there? Were they already in the habit of being harassed by the police?
• [00:09:19.01] AMY: Yeah, pretty much, because of John and his situation at Wayne State, as the professor-poet who got caught with pot. And back then, pot was still considered-- well, it still is, with some people. But it was still considered an addictive drug that was thrown in with heroin and everything else. So it was very scary for people, I think. And there was just starting to be a whole group of people that was starting, thinking a different way.
• [00:09:47.68] So yeah. The police were very aware of us. I don't remember a lot from the police in those days, but there was a definite consciousness and awareness of them. There was probably more trouble from just people off the street that would get angry at us, and throw rocks at the windows, and yell slurs, and say things. That got kind of scary sometimes.
• [00:10:19.06] AMY: This is moving ahead a little bit, but I got the impression when I read Pun's book that by the time you get to Ann Arbor, obviously things had changed. It had escalated. Things were much more-- I mean, you were there because of the police, and it was very much more politicized.
• [00:10:34.93] GENIE PARKER: Yeah, 'cause of the riots. I mean when the riots happened, that changed everything.
• [00:10:38.65] AMY: Were you in Detroit for the riots?
• [00:10:40.20] GENIE PARKER: Yeah, I was. That's the year that I came.
• [00:10:42.10] AMY: John has made much about the outlandish and outrageous and theatrical element, and the humor behind a lot of what the White Panthers stood for, literally, in the manifesto and such. But I gain a sense, reading the book, that you and David Sinclair were very much more serious and much more grounded. And I'm just curious if that's a true perception, or if you--
• [00:11:06.86] GENIE PARKER: Oh boy. Serious and grounded. [LAUGHS] That would be-- that's hard to think of, what we were like then, but it is true to a certain extent. I mean, we were very serious about wanting this to be the free country that it was touted and told to be. We should have been able to come in and-- we weren't hurting anyone.
• [00:11:27.77] I mean, probably the only law we were breaking was smoking pot and-- I don't know if LSD was even illegal at that point. I don't know. Probably it was. We weren't breaking lots of laws. That was the main thing.
• [00:11:42.26] It was just that we were so different and so culturally scary. Threatening, to so many people. So on the one hand, yeah, it was very serious. It was very clear in our minds.
• [00:11:59.56] But serious about what? Serious about having fun, leading a great life and having it be more free and more easy for people to be who they were.
• [00:12:13.16] I mean, I have a thing that, for me, that I always say to people. If you don't understand the '50s, you'll never understand the '60s. The '50s were so regimented. Everything before that was so incredibly regimented. And you had to fit in.
• [00:12:32.73] I mean, being from a high-ranking military family, you know, I was the Colonel's daughter. I had to act a certain way, be a certain way, look a certain way, and go through all that. And yet at the same time, I would always come home and change and put on what I wanted to put on, and do what I wanted to do, and go off-- it was like a schizophrenic life.
• [00:12:53.41] So if you didn't understand the '50s, you could never really understand why it was so incredibly-- I hate to be so trite, but mind-blowing, for so many people, that we'd change things. And we still are.
• [00:13:05.99] I mean, the world changed. We did change the world. I don't care what anybody says. We did, and for the better. It's still happening. It still-- there's a lot of problems created, a lot of misunderstandings happening.
• [00:13:18.94] Like sex is one of the biggest misunderstandings and problems to this day. Food, just all kinds of stuff. But yeah, we were very serious, on the one hand.
• [00:13:32.21] On the other hand, when you think about what we were serious about, we were serious about having fun, and enjoying ourselves, and creating that kind of a different culture that would change things enough for people.
• [00:13:43.90] I mean, I'm being a little ambiguous, but it's-- yeah, we were real serious, but on the other hand, it was a lot of fun. We laughed a lot. We had a good time putting it all together.
• [00:13:53.78] AMY: I noticed that you had gone to North Vietnam and you came back with a clear view of how the people there felt about the distinction between the Nixon administration and the American people. And I'm just wondering if you could talk about how that affected you and what you brought back.
• [00:14:14.84] GENIE PARKER: Oh, going to Vietnam, I could cry right now. It was incredible. It was so different than what I thought it would be. And I went with two other girls, right? There were three of us, invited by the North Vietnamese to come there as the alternate youth group that would come there and see it.
• [00:14:32.08] And there are several things that stuck out in my mind, OK? One was how much we were greeted and welcomed by everyone, everywhere we went. And they knew we were American, and they knew that my father had been over there bombing, and they knew all that. And yet they treated us so well and so welcoming.
• [00:14:54.27] And they taught us a lot. They talked about how usually, or very often, the people of a country are very different than the government of a country. They're different things. And I hadn't really thought about it like that before, but they really did talk about that.
• [00:15:13.27] And yet, in their country, the people and the government both were trying for peace and wanted friendship with our country. I mean, we met some high-level people. I remember walking in-- let's see, who was it? Oh, jeez. What is his name? Was he Laotian or Cambodian? He was a very high level.
• [00:15:35.11] And we walked into a room-- we'd been invited to come and meet him and talk-- and we walked into a room and there was probably, maybe, 10 people in the room. And they were all sitting around talking with each other. I mean, you walked in and you couldn't-- I mean, I just figured they were just all people and that they would bring in this guy eventually, right?
• [00:15:52.13] Well, when we walked in, they all sort of took their places, so to speak. And there were waiters and waitresses, and there was this-- I want to, oh, who was he? But anyway, when everybody took their place, we realized that there was no distinctions between them.
• [00:16:09.31] They all knew each other, they all talked, they all treated each other very well. They didn't wear different clothes, even, particularly. They just had-- there was a couple of translators, there was a couple of aides, and then there were the waiters and waitresses, or the attendants, that went around and brought us tea, or whatever.
• [00:16:27.33] And it was like, wow, you would never see that here. Ever, never see that here. You would never walk into a room and not be able to tell immediately who was important and who wasn't, and who was just an ordinary person. You can pretty much tell, when you look around a room. But there, you couldn't.
• [00:16:44.63] And that really just blew me away, in terms of how it could be. I mean, in this country, for me I always use garbage people as an example. Garbage men, because they usually have the muscle to do it. Think where we would be without garbage men. I mean, we should have them on a pedestal. (LAUGHING) You know, they should be paid really well. They take care of us, you know?
• [00:17:08.24] Another thing was driving along and noticing the hilly land. It was so beautiful. We were there, it was beautiful, in May. It was beautiful. And suddenly realizing that this had been a completely bombed-out area, is why it was all hilly like that. It had been bombed for miles and miles. And it was green, because vegetation had started to come back, but the jungle was gone.
• [00:17:32.85] And at first, it was like, well, we're just going through the country. Maybe they grew some crops here or something. And then slowly, it dawned, and I remember looking over, probably at Judy and Nancy, and saying, this has been bombed. That's what this is. And just wanting to cry, to realize how much of this area-- so that blew me away, to see that. How much we had destroyed their country.
• [00:18:02.61] And then just traveling, going up into the mountains, and seeing the different cultures that they allowed to maintain their own cultural identities. Not trying to assimilate them but to have them live their own lives.
• [00:18:18.98] AMY: How was your trip received when you came back? And were your parents supportive?
• [00:18:24.88] GENIE PARKER: The funniest part was coming back, was going through Moscow, and being followed by the KGB. [LAUGHS] That was hilarious. They were pretty obvious, and I don't know that they knew that.
• [00:18:35.85] They were-- anybody-- a man in a dark green suit. There was like five of 'em. [LAUGHS] And they were following us. And they'd see us, and they'd look away, and they'd do the magazine thing. [LAUGHS] I mean, it was straight out of the movies! It was hilarious.
• [00:18:51.90] And we would play. You know, we'd walk down the street quickly and they'd follow us. And then we'd stop all a sudden and turn around, and they'd duck behind the building. [LAUGH] Good Lord, do they really not know?
• [00:19:03.82] Then later, I thought, they must have-- maybe they were doing that on purpose, to scare us, to make us feel scared. But I don't think so. I think they really were that incompetent.
• [00:19:13.69] They really did not know how to do that. So they were trying to scare us, and it didn't work at all. We couldn't care less. We knew that we'd get back and come back.
• [00:19:24.82] And when we came back-- I'm trying to remember what all was going on. There seemed like there was so much else going on, it almost disappeared that we'd been there. It was weird, for a while.
• [00:19:37.12] But I don't remember anything being said about it. And there was so much else going on, it was like coming right back into the fire, and just getting back into it. I mean, we dug the crater. I don't know if you remember.
• [00:19:52.38] AMY: Yeah. I was gonna ask you about that.
• [00:19:54.30] GENIE PARKER: Yeah. That was fun. And I always felt kind of guilty that I'd never really written a book, or written more articles, or done something to be more vocal about having been in Vietnam.
• [00:20:08.53] AMY: And your family, through all this?
• [00:20:10.59] GENIE PARKER: Well, that was kind of funny. That was strange. I mean, they lived in Atlanta. So it's a long way away. And we were not a very close family, I will be honest. We were not a very close family. So I mean, it was years before I even saw them again. And my mother came up to visit one time, but my father never did.
• [00:20:34.37] And there was a time, it was-- I think it was the CIA, went to visit them and tried to scare them. Oh, where is she? You tell us where she is.
• [00:20:46.10] And they both told me, I remember them telling me, they said-- how ridiculous was that? Everyone knew where you were. [LAUGHS] There was no question where you were.
• [00:20:55.72] They were trying to scare them for some reason, but nobody ever knew why. I mean, why were they doing that? I mean, who cared? So in a way, they supported me. But we were just not very close, so it wasn't a real factor.
• [00:21:16.56] AMY: So did that make the house--the houses on Hill, and the relationship that you had with everybody there, did you feel very much like this was your family?
• [00:21:26.58] GENIE PARKER: Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, very definitely. Yeah, much more so than my real family, at the time. I mean, it was-- like I said, we were not a close family, so it was really nice to meet a bunch of people that we felt so much alike, and liked each other, and had a lot of fun together, and worked hard to keep the house going, and all of that. So, yeah. That was very much of a family.
• [00:21:51.28] ANDREW: Can you describe sort of typical days in the Hill Street houses? Were there typical days in the Hill Street houses?
• [00:21:56.36] GENIE PARKER: You had asked me earlier for a typical day, and I'm going-- honey-- I mean, no! There's not a typical day. Everybody got up when they wanted to. So there'd be people that would have been out all night, and up all night, and would get up in the afternoon. I mean, especially with the band-- if you worked with the band, you wouldn't get back til 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning.
• [00:22:21.04] So we'd sleep 'til noon, and then get up, and just be around Ann Arbor. Walk around and see people. You know, I don't know if there was a typical day.
• [00:22:34.63] I mean, it depends on what part of the era you're talking about, too. I mean, when John was in prison, it was a constant trying to make people aware of him and figure out how to get him out. And Pun, same way. How are you going to get him out? How do you keep in touch with him?
• [00:22:53.07] Rallies, benefits, constantly trying to-- I mean, John really had a real good consciousness of how to use culture to raise money and to try to get support. And so we would have benefits. Lots of times, different places, we would go with bands-- our bands, as well as other bands.
• [00:23:20.21] I mean, if you go way back, then there was the Grande. So we built the Grande, pretty much. So there were times when we would go over to the Grande Ballroom every day and paint, and clean, and do stuff over there.
• [00:23:34.10] And then there were kids. We had Celia. We had Una, who is Frank and Peggy's daughter. We had Sunny and Celia, and sometimes there were other kids that would come over. So we'd be taking care of kids, getting them the stuff they needed, and making food.
• [00:23:50.18] And never enough food. Always having battles over food. I remember John, one time, put a lock on the refrigerator because somebody would always come and drink all the orange juice. [LAUGHS] And he would get so mad.
• [00:24:02.67] And everybody was so upset. You know, we're growing kids and growing people. We need our food. So that was a constant battle, trying to get enough food for everybody.
• [00:24:14.28] And then there were the papers, putting out the papers, and putting out the poetry books. And being in contact with different people around the country to set up different things and bring different people in. So a daily day was-- you know, it was different all the time, what you did when you got up. The house and the location is what made it stable, to have the two houses.
• [00:24:40.18] And when we first moved in-- well, not when we first moved in, but after a while, we painted the both houses on the outside to match. That was a big project we undertook, to paint and to try to make it nice and keep it nice. Relatively.
• [00:24:57.93] Yeah, it's hard to say. I mean, a typical day. I don't know.
• [00:25:01.38] AMY: Have your beliefs and convictions changed much since those days? If you had to go back, what would you do the same? What would you do different?
• [00:25:11.17] GENIE PARKER: I don't think my beliefs have changed. If anything, I've become more convinced of where we were coming from and why it was so important, and how it changed the world. So yeah, I still feel very much the same.
• [00:25:30.02] How I would have changed it? How could you have? I mean, there was no examples for us to look at, of how to do anything like that, really. We made a lot of mistakes, I'm sure. I know we did a lot of stupid things.
• [00:25:49.59] I mean, being young kids-- at the time, we were. We were young kids. We didn't know, really, how to do stuff. So we bungled along, doing what we could.
• [00:26:01.76] I don't know if I would have changed a whole lot. Just because I tend to think that way about life-- a lot of regrets, yeah. I have a lot of regrets.
• [00:26:12.48] But to go back and change things? I don't know. Because then how do you predict what would have happened then? If you change anything, everything changes. And we had to go through what we went through to learn what we learned.
• [00:26:27.66] You know, I've never really thought like that. What would I change if I went back to change? I mean, I'm sure there are things.
• [00:26:36.56] I probably would've tried to help Pun a lot more than I did, because he was an alcoholic. And I couldn't help him at all. So I probably would've tried to help him more.
• [00:26:51.62] I mean that's true of any life. Your life. When you look back at your life, what would you change? I mean, you probably have regrets, things you can remember that you thought oh, I wish I hadn't done that, or oh, I wish I hadn't said that, or something.
• [00:27:04.07] But to really change it? Not have done it? What would it have done to your life, and what would you not have learned? So in a way, I hesitate to really want to change anything.
• [00:27:18.63] Although if I really sit here and think about it for a long time, I'll probably come up-- yeah, we should have done this and this and this. We coulda done it that way instead.
• [00:27:27.79] ANDREW: At the time, like at the time of the White Panther Party, what did you feel were the end goals? Like, if you could have achieved what you wanted to achieve, what would that achievement have been?
• [00:27:39.50] GENIE PARKER: You know, I'm one of those really big idealists. So when you ask me that-- John had a phrase one time, and I don't know where he got it. I'm not sure where he got it. But who said this? It was probably somebody like Sun Ra, or something.
• [00:27:56.07] Said, everything's on the planet already. It's all here. So it's a matter of distribution. How do you take care of everybody? If you care about people, and if you care about life, you want to have things--
• [00:28:12.55] Not all the same, and not everybody be the same, and not everything exactly the same for everybody. But you want everybody happy and taken care of, and the bottom line. Food, clothing, shelter, at least. So that you have a positive attitude all over the whole world. I mean, how can that be bad?
• [00:28:36.86] In a way, I look at it kind of like unions. I'm not against unions and I'm not for unions. I'm for them when you need them. When you need a union, they're good, because they come in and they deal with owners that aren't taking care of the people that are working, so you set up laws and regulations and you try to deal with them.
• [00:28:57.67] But when the unions go into a place where everybody's taken care of, and it's good, and people don't really need it, then you're getting into just self-- whatever. They're just taking care of themselves and trying to make money and push people around.
• [00:29:13.16] So if you kind of look at the world that way, we need unions all over the world to make sure that everybody gets taken care of, and everybody has at least food, clothing, shelter, some education, decent water, and start there to have that kind of an opportunity. I mean, think of all the people, all over the world, who are just being completely wasted. Their talents are completely wasted, because nobody even knows they exist. You know, all the kids that are out there, that have enormous potential for all kinds of stuff, in science, and education, and everything.
• [00:29:54.13] And we're sort of taking backsteps now with food and how many chemicals we use. And people are actually starting to see that this is maybe not the best way to handle things. And it isn't-- all packaged foods isn't the best way to go.
• [00:30:11.30] And believe me, they really believed that that was true for a long time. They tried it. But it isn't true.
• [00:30:17.54] So in the biggest sense, yeah. Take care of-- there's no reason not to take care of the whole planet. Especially, I mean, we've got the consciousness now on the whole planet. We're not just living in completely isolated situations.
• [00:30:35.46] I mean, there are lots of isolated situations, but on purpose. At least they know about it, and other people are leaving them alone, more than unknown isolation. There is some, I'm sure. I know there is.
• [00:30:47.42] But for the most part, if there was that kind of a consciousness, we could go in and bring fresh water, and figure out ways for people to learn how to grow their own food. I mean, communities, to grow food, and to take care of themselves, and to educate their kids, and to be happy. And I mean, in the end, that is what we were looking for. How do you do things differently?
• [00:31:10.00] But at the beginning, it was more like, OK, we're a group of people who want to do things differently than the way we were brought up with. So just let us do our thing.
• [00:31:18.49] Let us have our schools. Let us grow our food, or at least distribute the food we want. We had food co-ops, all that kind of stuff. Let us wear the clothes we want, listen to the music we want to listen to, and try to be compatible.
• [00:31:35.14] I sort of still feel that way now, that oh, people are so different. There's so many different kinds of people in the world. If there's true democracy and decentralization, which I'm for both--
• [00:31:51.78] So you have, like, Las Vegas. I mean, they voted. They've got legalized prostitution, legalized all kinds of stuff there, where it's not legal in other places. But they voted it in there. Well, that's good.
• [00:32:02.11] Well there ought to be whole cities, and there are starting to be now, where marijuana is legal and where people can go and live that kind of life. You pick where you want to go and do what you want to do based on who you are, not your family or not anybody else, but who you grow up to be.
• [00:32:21.15] And I'm big enough of an idealist to believe that it can be done. Whether it ever will or not, who knows? But I guess somebody's got to think that way.
• [00:32:31.46] So in a way, the biggest picture is, yeah. Take care of everybody, and make sure people-- I mean, if somebody wants to be a prude-- I hate to use the word-- but if they want to be a prude and be very tight-knit and very staid, and wear turtlenecks all the time, [LAUGHS] I mean, they should be able to do that, and have a community like that, that is OK with that. And nobody looks down on it or frowns on it.
• [00:33:06.12] And I don't mean to segregate all the communities, either. People need to interact and know each other. But if there's true democracy, people set up their own communities, and their own cities, and their own villages the way they want them, and do it that way.
• [00:33:23.78] AMY: Was the conscious decision to change the name of the party from the White Panthers to the Rainbow People-- was that part of it? Was it a desire to go back to the more basic beliefs?
• [00:33:35.39] GENIE PARKER: Well, you know, we were really attacked. They started shooting people. When they started shooting people-- like Ohio State, or Kent State.
• [00:33:45.64] A lot of people backed off at that point, and said, whoa, this isn't what we signed up for. We're weekend hippies, or something. For most people-- most people were. They were just having fun on the weekends and trying to do something different and being part of this big movement that was going on.
• [00:34:02.94] So yeah, at that point, we needed to broaden, to get even bigger. And we'd always studied Indian culture. That was a real close part of what we based our whole approach on, was the tribal consciousness, that kind of awareness. And that's where the Rainbow People came from. That was one of the legends.
• [00:34:27.10] So it was-- yeah. I don't know that it was going back, so much as it was going forward, is how I felt about it. And I think we did.
• [00:34:35.65] I think most of us at that point-- some people my have felt we were going backwards, because we'd been so political and then we had to back off. But in a way, it was going forward, because it was trying to involve more people and get it to be easier for people to relate to, and not quite so dangerous. Because they were killing people at that point.
• [00:34:58.92] You know, I remember having that conversation about why to get involved in local politics like that, to that extent, to actually run for office. And up until that point, everybody kept saying-- and especially the Human Rights Party, at that point, had kept saying that they were doing this to educate people. To get the word out and to get things going. To inform people and educate them.
• [00:35:29.62] But for us, it was more serious. It was like, if we're going to run for office, we're going to try to get that office And we're going actually try to run it and do the business and take care of things and change it. And try to make things more kind to people.
• [00:35:45.00] You know, I remember talking about the sheriff's office always having to go and evict people and just throwing them out on the street with all their stuff. Well, instead of doing that, helping find people find someplace else, help them move their stuff, you know, make it more humane. A more humane government.
• [00:35:59.26] So we were very conscious of-- if we were going to get involved like that, that we wanted it to be for real. Well, we were in a precinct. And where we ran me, we were in a precinct that was heavily Republican at the time. Wasn't it? Right? Oh, boy, now I can't even remember.
• [00:36:16.40] We were accused of splitting the vote. That's what it was, too. They had just reapportioned, I think, too, and there was a chance that the Democrats would be able to win that particular area. And we went in the split the vote.
• [00:36:29.92] And I barely knew what that meant, even. And I remember being yelled at a few times going around in the community, in the neighborhoods, and people yelling at me, being really angry at me, and me having to go back and find out, what are they-- why are they so mad that they would run me for office?
• [00:36:46.81] And that's exactly what they said. We did split the vote. We did very well, but we did split the vote, and the Republicans won. Oh well. But in the meantime, it at least did raise consciousness for people about what it meant to have more parties than just the Democrats and the Republicans. So we're sort of still in that position now. [LAUGHS] It didn't change that much, but it did some.
• [00:37:14.47] So we were serious about actually wanting to win and take over the office, any offices, if we got on City Council or anything, that we would actually try to do a good job and make things happen.
• [00:37:28.81] ANDREW: When did things sort of start to fall apart at the Hill Street houses?
• [00:37:34.47] GENIE PARKER: At the Hill Street houses, when John went into prison. He really was the guiding light of what we did. And we had to spend so much time, then, trying to get him out of prison.
• [00:37:46.27] And the band-- it was a very strange situation with the band, because they were being lured by New York, the big record companies. So their concern was, well, what are we going to do as a band now? Not what are we going to do as a group, or how are we going to get John out of prison, or anything. It was just, what are we going to do as a band now?
• [00:38:11.22] So that kind of threw everybody for a loop. We all kind of-- uh-oh. Bad attitude. Wrong way to think. So it kind of started to fall apart, in a way, then.
• [00:38:24.73] ANDREW: And then when John was released from prison, did things start to refocus a little bit?
• [00:38:29.87] GENIE PARKER: Yeah, but it was so torn apart at that point. The whole country was. It wasn't just us. It was everybody. It was unclear where things were going and what was going to happen.
• [00:38:41.28] You know, there was a point when Pun and I left. We had an old-- I think it was a '49 Ford truck. It was this really cool truck. And we built a wooden house on the back of it, and got an old pot-bellied stove, literally, and drove around the country.
• [00:39:00.70] It was fun. People would wave at us, and follow us, and everything. And we, oh, we went into the woods, and we found some antlers, so we put these huge, probably 12-point, antlers on the front of the truck on the top. [LAUGHS] I mean, we were hippies, totally. Anybody would look at-- kids would just be, wow! And cars going by, they'd wave and honk their horns and everything. It was fun.
• [00:39:27.89] But we left after-- you know, when they killed Martin Luther King in '68, that sort of ruined stuff a lot. We were still living in Detroit. That's when we moved to Ann Arbor, was when they did that. And then after we left-- I'm trying to remember what happened. I mean, it was-- God. Was John still in prison? Do you remember? Was John out?
• [00:39:50.23] ANDREW: He was out.
• [00:39:50.87] GENIE PARKER: He was out-- and we, I'm trying to remember why we decided to leave. It was falling apart. I think we were losing the houses. We weren't quite sure what was going to happen.
• [00:40:00.65] And we both said, look, we'll make things easier. We'll leave and go do something else for a while, and you guys figure out what's going to go on, basically, and someday we'll come back and see if we can help. And everybody was cool with that, because it was just all so unclear at that point, where anybody was going to go, and what we were going to do. So we left, and we were gone for quite a while. I don't remember how long, but it was a while.
• [00:40:30.88] AMY: One of the people that, of course, we would have liked to interview is David Sinclair, but we can't. And we've been asking for sort of a character sketch. And you've mentioned-- you talked about him a little, but I wondered if you'd mind telling us some of your thoughts about David.
• [00:40:47.31] GENIE PARKER: Oh, no, David was a wonderful person. He is one of the most wonderful, kind, intelligent, caring, hard-working, fun-- I mean, he was a true wonderful person. Just a truly wonderful person.
• [00:41:03.37] You could count on David, any time you needed him, just to talk or to take care of business or to help somebody. David was there, always. He was just always right there.
• [00:41:14.84] And you wonder, was he in the shadow of his brother? And that never-- I don't think that was ever talked about or even thought about. He was so much of his own person, and clearly doing what he wanted to do. He was not-- there was no resentment or anything on his part, at all.
• [00:41:33.42] He was a truly wonderful person. Yeah. I have nothing but good things to say about David. We all did. I don't know anybody would say-- we called him Dave more than David, at the time, anyway. I can't remember. But yeah. He was a really good person.
• [00:41:52.34] AMY: How about Gary?
• [00:41:54.05] GENIE PARKER: Grimshaw? Grimshaw was Grimshaw. Grimshaw was the artist. He was always-- he was very focused. Very, very focused on what he had to do.
• [00:42:07.12] And you would rarely even see him. He wasn't around a lot. He was like the mole in the corner over there, drawing, drawing, drawing. He was really-- and I say mole. I mean mole in the sense of an animal that is underground.
• [00:42:26.12] But he was fun, too. He was always fun, and did his part. And much more practical than you would think.
• [00:42:33.64] But he was very much the artist. Very much the artist, in the sense that he just didn't care about a whole lot else. His role was to illustrate it, to show it, and to make it bigger and prettier somehow. So he was the artist. He just was always the artist.
• [00:42:55.14] ANDREW: How about Leni?
• [00:42:56.56] GENIE PARKER: Leni was the rock. Leni was the rock. Leni was always the one who was the most practical, in terms of day-to-day living, food, keeping the house together, making sure the washing machine worked, taking care the kids, ordering us around, making sure everybody knew what they were supposed to be doing. She was always a rock.
• [00:43:28.30] And you wouldn't-- well , if you know her now, you maybe wouldn't know that or wouldn't think of her that way. But she was, for the rest of us. She was the den mother, the house mother. The one who was very clear--
• [00:43:44.23] She was John's wife. And John was the head of the family, and she was also the head of the family. They were the two heads of the family, the mother and the father.
• [00:43:55.08] She's got a lot information, right? And she can put things together. She understands the relationship between things, and why this happened, and why that happened, and how it relates. To think that-- she'll tell you how it was us that brought down Nixon, right? Did she tell you that?
• [00:44:12.71] And who would think that? Who would ever be able to have that much relative consciousness, to figure it all out, unless you sat down and went, OK, this is what happened. Once you hear it from her, it's like, oh yeah, OK, we did. That's how it worked. If it hadn't gone down that way, who knows what would have happened. It would have been completely different if it hadn't gone down that way.
• [00:44:35.41] So she has helped me understand a lot of stuff. We talk sometimes, and I'll just ask her, what did we do, and what was about was that about? Why were we doing that? And she'll make it all real clear. She still is very politically astute. I think of her as that way, very politically astute. Understands a lot of stuff.
• [00:45:03.82] AMY: Pun?
• [00:45:04.63] GENIE PARKER: Oh, yeah. The love of my life, Pun. Yeah, he was-- oh, man. You'd say, almost, call him the heart of the whole thing. I mean, he just had so much heart, and was so big of a personality.
• [00:45:23.82] And worked so hard, just would be willing to do anything. He would go with the band sometimes-- a lot of times, he'd go with the bands. But he'd always be there for John. And he'd make sure that he was there so that if John needed something done, he would do it, and take care of business.
• [00:45:43.91] Everybody loved Pun. He was easy to talk to, and fun. It was just-- we had a nice relationship, the two of us. We were joined at the hip, everybody said. We were joined at the hip. We were always together and always did a lot together. Not everything, but we did a lot together.
• [00:46:02.62] But he was a real anchor, too, for the whole thing. Until it fell apart. And then it fell apart.
• [00:46:11.35] AMY: While we're on a roll-- David Fenton?
• [00:46:13.90] GENIE PARKER: Oh. You'll get a bunch of stuff from him that you won't get from anybody else, probably. And that's a good thing. He'll bring up some things that-- you may want to call a few people back and say, I heard this. Is this true? [LAUGHS] Was it really like that?
• [00:46:31.85] He had a little bit of a different perspective on some of the things that happened, I know. So he'll be interesting. But he was very clear on what was going on, and how we were affecting things, and what our place was in the political arena at the time. And was very respectful, that way, of what we were doing and where it was going.
• [00:46:59.20] But he went through some things, so it'll be interesting. It'll be an interesting interview.
• [00:47:06.66] ANDREW: You mentioned the relationship to the Nixon regime falling apart. Was it surprising to discover that the Justice Department was interested in what you were doing on Hill Street? That the Justice Department had informants?
• [00:47:24.67] GENIE PARKER: Oh, you know, it was amazing. In a way, by that time, it wasn't as surprising to us as I think it would have been to other people. It was. It was very surprising to think that they would care about this little group in Michigan. I mean, what in the world?
• [00:47:46.86] I remember picking up the phone one time in Ann Arbor to make a call, and I could hear conversations going on in a completely other part of the house, that we weren't anywhere near. Listening, and going, how come I'm hearing a conversation in another part of the house in this phone?
• [00:48:08.54] It occurred to me they'd messed up their bug somehow. You know? They messed it up. Who knows how?
• [00:48:15.94] And so, I said something to them. I said, you're messing this up! I'm hearing-- you know, and I'm talking away, and I put it down, and waited a while and came back, and then it was fine. You know, and then going my parents in Atlanta, saying, where's your daughter?
• [00:48:32.42] I mean, by the time they were doing that kind of stuff, it was like-- and again, that was why we backed off a little bit, too. They were kill-- they were literally killing people. They were killing Black Panthers. They were infiltrating different places and setting people up in situations that they would not-- you know, entrapment. Setting people up in situations that they would never--
• [00:48:54.61] But we knew we were, by that time, we were pretty threatening, too. And so, in a way there was-- I don't want to say pride, but in a way, we were kind of proud of what we had done. That they would care that much about us, and be that aware of what we were doing.
• [00:49:14.77] You know, when we put it-- I'm trying to remember the first time Leni said something to me about how it was us that brought down the Nixon administration. That surprised me. I had forgotten that it was that clearly of a lineage, you know, of what had happened.
• [00:49:30.59] But it was true. So it's strange that it could have been this little group, that did as much as we did. and almost disappeared.
• [00:49:40.75] AMY: You had a role in providing security for some of the concerts and events. And I just wondered if you could talk a little bit about--
• [00:49:48.36] GENIE PARKER: Oh, the Psychedelic Rangers?
• [00:49:49.90] AMY: Yeah.
• [00:49:51.49] GENIE PARKER: Yeah, the Psychedelic Rangers. Well, it went along with all the other cultural approach. We wanted to take care of ourselves. We wanted to do things our way, rather than do the way they had always been done.
• [00:50:04.50] And I think a big part of it was making that distinction in drugs. The good drugs and the bad drugs. For us, marijuana and the psychedelics the natural drugs were all considered to be educational, good, spiritual. Good additions to people's lives that could help you do things.
• [00:50:22.24] Whereas speed, and Quaaludes, however people say it, heroin. Cocaine was on the border because it was so much fun. But it was very expensive. And I never bought cocaine, ever, in my life. The only time I did it was because we were around so many musicians, and they would have it and share.
• [00:50:50.03] But we were so clear on wanting to police our own situations. And we made the arrangements with the Ann Arbor police, you know. We told them. I'm pretty sure we told them outright that that's what we were going to do, that we were not going to turn people in for marijuana and for psychedelics, but they would not be allowed to sell it or to distribute it anywhere. But we were not going to stop people from using.
• [00:51:17.34] But we would stop people, and we would turn people in, if they-- I don't know if we said we would turn them in, but we said we would at least run them off. We wouldn't let them stay if they were using bad drugs, or trying to sell drugs, or do anything like that.
• [00:51:32.91] So then it's just a matter of organization. You get a bunch of people, you have an area, you grid it off. And you just-- you're here, you're here, you're here, you're here. Pay attention and look around. And make sure that we catch what's going on.
• [00:51:45.97] And actually do it, because if we don't, they're not going to let us do it ourselves. If we didn't actually do it. And we did. So it was fun.
• [00:51:56.06] AMY: Do you have specific memories of the Free John rally?
• [00:51:59.97] GENIE PARKER: Ah. Yeah. The Ten for Two.
• [00:52:02.53] [BOTH LAUGH]
• [00:52:04.53] GENIE PARKER: Wasn't it?
• [00:52:04.77] AMY: Well, I guess it was.
• [00:52:06.17] GENIE PARKER: Yeah, it was. Yeah. Oh sure, I remember. I mean, I remember walking in and seeing John Lennon and Yoko Ono sitting there together. That's actually my major memory from that.
• [00:52:20.55] And then just the enormous amount of people. And they started to crowd up to the stage, at one point, and a couple times we had to really work hard to get them back. Because it was crushing, literally crushing people, you know. They had to get back.
• [00:52:35.95] But it was a lot of fun. It was fun. It was interesting. People-- I remember being surprised that people were so surprised that John Lennon and Yoko Ono came to support John Sinclair. People were very surprised that they would do that. It was, like, shocking.
• [00:52:52.03] But not for us. We were like, phew! It's about time! [LAUGHS] They need to be here to do this. It's part of everything that's going on.
• [00:53:00.70] So it was a lot of fun. It was huge. It was a huge success. And it worked.
• [00:53:07.18] ANDREW: So what was next for you after all of this political action and everything that you had been involved with. Where'd you go next?
• [00:53:14.89] GENIE PARKER: Oh, we had been to several different houses. We got a house downtown in the New Center area of Detroit. We had a very nice house, a huge house.
• [00:53:26.27] But I remember it being very confusing, of what we were going to do. And I had no idea what I was going to do. I didn't know what I was going to do or where I was going to go. I just stayed with John and Leni because I'd been with them. And Frank and Peggy, and all the kids. I think that's all it was, was John and Leni, and Frank and Peggy, the kids, and me.
• [00:53:46.17] And I remember not knowing what I was going to do, and meeting Ed Lamb, who was a photographer. And I don't know how he met Leni, but he and Leni were really good friends. He and I started hanging out and going out together.
• [00:54:00.31] He was a producer, a close-circuit producer, like for training and educational things. He was a photographer for the Legal News, so he'd would go around and take pictures. He did some pictures, I think, probably, for Leni. Because her being a photographer, they had a lot in common.
• [00:54:18.78] And he and I became really good friends, and I moved out and moved in with him, and started learning about production. I spent about the next 10 years of my life learning television production, and wrote scripts. I ended up shooting-- I shot and I directed a few spots. We would do things for the car companies and for the hospitals. I learned a lot. That was fun.
• [00:54:53.91] Ended up-- there was an organization, Detroit Producers Association, that we got involved in, and I started putting out a newsletter for them, and that turned into a magazine. And started making a living from the magazine, then, for a while.
• [00:55:09.05] And then I started training Tai Chi. I'd always been such a wild child, that any kind of martial arts was what I was hoping would sort of discipline me. Bring me into some kind of more discipline, to be more effective in life.
• [00:55:33.30] And then, Ed and I had had trouble-- we were together like 14, 13 years. 13 or 14-- was it that long? Something like that. Yeah, I think it was 13 years. And we'd been on and off. I mean, it wasn't real easy, but we had a good life together.
• [00:55:49.99] But then I fell in love with somebody. I fell in love with my Tai Chi teacher, actually. [LAUGHS] I hate to say it that way, but it's true. I did. So I moved in with him and started teaching.
• [00:56:01.10] I didn't mean to teach. I didn't mean to make that what I was going to do, but it turned out that way. They started asking me to teach.
• [00:56:09.43] And it's a very legitimate-- it's one of the five families in China. In China there are five families that teach Tai Chi. So he was a disciple of the family. It was a martial art discipleship.
• [00:56:20.72] So then I became a disciple of the family, met the family-- I've been to China several times-- and I'm still a disciple of the family. And now I teach Tai Chi full-time.
• [00:56:31.50] So it's a real nice place to be, to be able to help people. I teach all ages of people-- not too many young kids. Now my youngest is like 15, I think. And my oldest is 95, I think. It's a good range.
• [00:56:48.50] So it's not as political of a situation, but it is helping people. It's been really good for me. And this is just another chapter in my life.
• [00:57:03.59] I was the colonel's daughter, right? And then there was the White Panther/Rainbow People's Party thing. There was all of that.
• [00:57:12.39] And then there was Ed and the production community, and then there was Steve and the Tai Chi community, and that's where I still am. Well, and the magazine was in there with Ed, and then by myself, doing the magazine, after he and I broke up.
• [00:57:28.54] ANDREW: Do you teach in Ann Arbor?
• [00:57:30.25] GENIE PARKER: Yeah, I have a school in Ann Arbor. Yeah. I teach at the University of Michigan in Dearborn. Botsford Hospital's Wellness Center, Ann Arbor Community Health-- I volunteered to do a class there, so we've just started that. Yeah, and I've taught a million other places.
• [00:57:47.23] AMY: So in a way, of all the folks from back then, you're the one that came back to Ann Arbor.
• [00:57:52.22] AMY: [LAUGHS] I hadn't thought about it that way. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, sorta full circle. Yeah.
• [00:58:00.71] I've thought about moving back here. It would be nice. But I love where I live now. I live in Royal Oak now, so I love it being there, too. That's fun. But I still may come back to Ann Arbor to live eventually.
• [00:58:17.12] ANDREW: To learn more about Genie Parker, go to freeingjohnsinclair.org.
• [00:58:24.99] AMY: "AADL Talks to Genie Parker" has been a production of the Ann Arbor District Library.