Sesquicentennial Interview: Helen Kokales and Frank Kokenakes

Thu, 11/07/2024 - 5:07pm

When: 1974

This interview was conducted in 1974 as part of the I Remember When television series produced by the Ann Arbor Public Library.

Transcript

• [00:00:11] TED TROST: Well, Mr. Kokenakes?
• [00:00:12] FRANK KOKENAKES: Yes.
• [00:00:13] TED TROST: Mrs. Kokales. How did it happen that you came to this country? How did you both happen to get here?
• [00:00:20] FRANK KOKENAKES: Well, I came first. My father was here in 1903, and then he came back 1906. He stayed over there and I left 1907. As I said, I came New York to Ellis Island and from Ellis Island to Three Rivers, Massachusetts, and then Boston, Massachusetts.
• [00:00:43] TED TROST: Finally coming to Ann Arbor?
• [00:00:45] FRANK KOKENAKES: After a year or so I came I did came direct to Ann Arbor. I worked for a year over there. Fruit Peddler and I used to go to night school over there in Boston, and from there, friend of mine, he was over here. His name is Pete Botchen. He's dead now. He says, Let's go to Ann Arbor.
• [00:01:05] TED TROST: Why Ann Arbor, did he say?
• [00:01:07] FRANK KOKENAKES: Well, because my cousins were here, Mr. Preketes. Charlie, Paul, Frank, and Tony, four brothers, and they wanted me to come over here. The Greeks all get together, and one helps another, and I came over here. I work on State Street next to Wagner's, and I've been shine shoes, and then later on, I started working on the shoe business. I had shoe repairing. After I come back from the First World War, I started shoe repairing next door to the shoeshine, 1925, the building is going to tore down because the State Theater took it over. I had to move next to the corner from Liberty and State, and I stayed there until 1947. From 1947 on, I retired and I worked down the argos.
• [00:02:08] TED TROST: Oh, yes.
• [00:02:10] FRANK KOKENAKES: Some shoemakers, they need somebody to work with them, so I go and help them along. Shall I tell you my sickness too?
• [00:02:21] TED TROST: Well, maybe, touch on that you got sick.
• [00:02:22] FRANK KOKENAKES: In 1956, I had a heart attack.
• [00:02:25] TED TROST: Oh, my.
• [00:02:26] FRANK KOKENAKES: They took me to the VA Hospital, and they keep me there for a month and I got well. After that, I retired. I never done anything else ever since.
• [00:02:36] TED TROST: You look as if retirements working.
• [00:02:40] FRANK KOKENAKES: But I still taken pension from the army from DAV Disabled American Veteran, also my social security and my home, and I'm very pleased.
• [00:02:51] TED TROST: That's good.
• [00:02:53] FRANK KOKENAKES: I raised four children. Pete. Mary is the first one. Pete is the second one. Ethel is the third one, and Theodore is the fourth one. My kids. Then they got married, they been married but around 25 years and some 24 years, and Ted has been married only 12, 13 years. My oldest son, he's got two children. One, 21 years he finishes college, and he goes to law school, and the other one he goes on the eighth grade. My daughters, they don't have no children. My other son has got two daughters and he is expecting one next week.
• [00:03:40] TED TROST: Well, you've got a big family. You both, though, you're brother and sister. You didn't come at the same time.
• [00:03:47] FRANK KOKENAKES: No.
• [00:03:47] TED TROST: How did you happen to get to this?
• [00:03:49] HELEN KOKALES: Well, my father brought us in this country because he was here before, and the war started and depression was in Greece. He thought, we'll come here and work or go to school, and we came in this country.
• [00:04:08] FRANK KOKENAKES: In 1916.
• [00:04:09] HELEN KOKALES: 1916. I was 14. My brother Chris was 16, and Paul was 12.
• [00:04:17] TED TROST: We've already mentioned that there were some Greeks here and Greeks stick together. Has the Greek community been a real source of support for you?
• [00:04:27] HELEN KOKALES: Very much. We all work, and on the first work, I started doing Sugar Bowl chocolate dipper. They showed me how to make the candy. From here we went to Chicago because my brothers couldn't find job. We stayed there a couple of years and then we'll come back to Ann Arbor, but we like it very much.
• [00:04:48] TED TROST: Well, being loyal to each other, though, does your heart still go back to the old country?
• [00:04:53] HELEN KOKALES: Well, I still have a brother in Athens.
• [00:04:56] TED TROST: I see.
• [00:04:57] HELEN KOKALES: He never was able to come because they want to put so much money during the depression and they never came.
• [00:05:07] FRANK KOKENAKES: He's a chemist.
• [00:05:08] HELEN KOKALES: He has family, and he can't make it. They need to board 10,000 to come here to visit us. One by one, we went back and visit him. It took me 45 years before I got back to my home country.
• [00:05:23] TED TROST: It was good to see him.
• [00:05:24] HELEN KOKALES: Very good. I left him when he was 5 years old, and when I went there, he was 55.
• [00:05:32] TED TROST: Well, now, excuse me, even though you've came to Ann Arbor as newcomers, you've learned to love Ann Arbor as we all do.
• [00:05:41] HELEN KOKALES: Yes, it was a small town and beautiful.
• [00:05:43] TED TROST: Well, I you bet you've seen some changes there.
• [00:05:45] HELEN KOKALES: Very much.
• [00:05:46] TED TROST: Well, talk about those.
• [00:05:48] HELEN KOKALES: The campus was so beautiful and you walk without any fear. We used to sit right in the middle of the campus, the school, visiting with people, and the student was very gender, dress up, nice go to school and everything. It's nothing like it used to be.
• [00:06:09] TED TROST: Well, I think time has changed.
• [00:06:10] HELEN KOKALES: We have a lot of Greek students coming from Greece to study here, too.
• [00:06:16] TED TROST: Will they then come and join the Greek community?
• [00:06:19] HELEN KOKALES: Yes, they did. Have good times, singing, everything playing the mandolin at night with my husband at billiard hall. They come over, and they had very nice gathering. We used to have a picnic at Pleasant Lake. All everyone in the community come over there. I have a picture.
• [00:06:42] TED TROST: The Greek students would be invited?
• [00:06:44] HELEN KOKALES: Everybody. They used to have a club the Greek students, quite Hellenic University, with no students.
• [00:06:56] TED TROST: Well, Mr. Kokenakes, if you came to Ann Arbor, when was it around 1916, 17?
• [00:07:01] FRANK KOKENAKES: No. My sister came came I came Boston 1907, 1909.
• [00:07:07] TED TROST: 1909. That's the year I am looking for.
• [00:07:09] FRANK KOKENAKES: I've been here ever since.
• [00:07:11] TED TROST: Well, talking about changes, I bet State Street didn't look pretty modern when you came, did it?
• [00:07:16] FRANK KOKENAKES: I hit the shoeshine next to the next to the Wagner's. It used to be Dr. Vaughn's property. Dean of the Medical School.
• [00:07:30] HELEN KOKALES: It was not building.
• [00:07:31] FRANK KOKENAKES: He was very nice gentlemen. He had five children. They're all educated doctors and chemists and things like that. I used to remember him very well. They used to come in at the store because he's living next door. Then also, I used to have Dean Cooley used to come in on the store.
• [00:07:48] TED TROST: The law school.
• [00:07:49] FRANK KOKENAKES: No law school. Engineering.
• [00:07:51] TED TROST: Engineering school.
• [00:07:51] FRANK KOKENAKES: Engineering. He was one of the best gentlemen you to me. He used to come in on the store and talk to me, says, My boy. He says, when we finish school, he says, all we learn how to use the pencil to draw things. But he says the best education he says after you get out with the people on the outside world. As I used to tell me and I still remember it as a young man.
• [00:08:16] TED TROST: Well, now in the Greek community, not only do the people stick together and real closeness, but your church plays a big role in the life of all of them.
• [00:08:26] HELEN KOKALES: Yes.
• [00:08:27] TED TROST: Tell us about the church here at Ann Arbor. That was founded, when was it?
• [00:08:33] FRANK KOKENAKES: 1936.
• [00:08:35] TED TROST: 1936.
• [00:08:35] HELEN KOKALES: It was during the depression, tell him about collect money to the building.
• [00:08:40] FRANK KOKENAKES: During the depression, we had to go out, the women, they give some play to collect money to put it on the church. Then we used to ourselves. Somebody put $5, some $10, so we can we didn't have much money. Nobody has no more money. We used to go out sometimes to sell a ticket for twenty-five cents and the guy says, You come back again for tickets because twenty-five cents is a lot of money those days.
• [00:09:06] HELEN KOKALES: We used to give dinners for dollar.
• [00:09:09] FRANK KOKENAKES: Dinners for dollar, in order to make a few extra dollars to support the church. Finally, we finish in 1937.
• [00:09:21] HELEN KOKALES: Mostly, Charlie Preketes.
• [00:09:24] FRANK KOKENAKES: Charlie Preketes.
• [00:09:26] HELEN KOKALES: He was a hit.
• [00:09:27] FRANK KOKENAKES: Poulos, Dames, Chris Bilakos, Chris Kokenakes, Frank Kokenakes, Paul Kokenakes and a few other people here in Ann Arbor they support the church.
• [00:09:43] TED TROST: Was this when you had your first full time priest then?
• [00:09:47] FRANK KOKENAKES: We had first time priest came from.
• [00:09:49] HELEN KOKALES: From Chios.
• [00:09:51] FRANK KOKENAKES: From. No, but first before we make the church, we have halls. We used to go here and there.
• [00:09:59] HELEN KOKALES: I see.
• [00:10:00] FRANK KOKENAKES: But after we met the church, we had a priest coming in from the island of Chios. We didn't pay very much money because the community didn't have much money.
• [00:10:10] HELEN KOKALES: You only pay $75 worth.
• [00:10:15] FRANK KOKENAKES: But the community is poor, but after a while everything begin might going better.
• [00:10:21] TED TROST: Have you been active in the church, Mrs. Kokales?
• [00:10:22] HELEN KOKALES: Very much.
• [00:10:24] TED TROST: I guess before the church weren't you saying a little earlier you had to go to Detroit years ago?
• [00:10:29] HELEN KOKALES: We went to Detroit to holidays and to baptize our children. My two children, they were baptized in Detroit. I guess moors they call them.
• [00:10:43] FRANK KOKENAKES: When I got married, we had to bring the priest from Detroit here to Ann Arbor to marry.
• [00:10:48] HELEN KOKALES: You got married right in the house [LAUGHTER].
• [00:10:52] FRANK KOKENAKES: We didn't have no halls. We didn't have things like that, the priest come in.
• [00:10:57] HELEN KOKALES: We were happy. Cook right there and everybody eat right there.
• [00:11:01] FRANK KOKENAKES: State and Packard. The street car used to come from Detroit and I was living on Hill Street then. Hill and State, between Hill, State and Packard on those houses there. That's where I got married. Then I went home, which I used to live right across the street from the Masonic lodge. The Masonic on Fourth Avenue across the street were the parking lot and the restaurants. There used to be houses. We used to live right there. The family of Greek people live next door.
• [00:11:33] TED TROST: But you certainly have a beautiful church. I've seen it.
• [00:11:37] HELEN KOKALES: Well, cost quite a bit, but the wall work.
• [00:11:40] TED TROST: It was worth it.
• [00:11:41] HELEN KOKALES: It was worth it.
• [00:11:42] FRANK KOKENAKES: Years later, when the older generation like me and a few others, we let the young boys take over. They wanted to make more room so they built twelve rooms, cost quarter of a million dollars.
• [00:11:59] HELEN KOKALES: For Sunday school. We have Greek school also in the afternoon.
• [00:12:03] FRANK KOKENAKES: Yes, sir.
• [00:12:04] HELEN KOKALES: We used to have it even years back. But the ladies who know the Greek very well, they used to teach a couple of hours every afternoon.
• [00:12:13] TED TROST: You're still keeping your culture going?
• [00:12:15] HELEN KOKALES: Yes.
• [00:12:16] TED TROST: Preserving the language.
• [00:12:17] FRANK KOKENAKES: Yes.
• [00:12:17] HELEN KOKALES: All my children are learn to read and write in Greek, so I'm very proud.
• [00:12:24] TED TROST: You should be. One of the things that the Greek community has done for Ann Arbor is, I think a great contribution that they have made. That's the annual Greek festival that you get.
• [00:12:35] HELEN KOKALES: Yes.
• [00:12:36] TED TROST: How did that get started? Tell us about it.
• [00:12:38] FRANK KOKENAKES: Well, we had one minister and young minister. He says we'd have to start something. He says, so we can make money.
• [00:12:44] HELEN KOKALES: Father Aneste you ever hear him?
• [00:12:46] TED TROST: Yes.
• [00:12:47] HELEN KOKALES: He was the one, who start it.
• [00:12:49] FRANK KOKENAKES: He says were to do this. He run out and talked to all the women. He says, you got to come to the church and make up this and make that work for a month.
• [00:12:59] HELEN KOKALES: Make 50,000 pieces sweets the first year.
• [00:13:04] FRANK KOKENAKES: They made very good success the first year. The second year, they made more success. Then they begin to have the ethnic festival on Main Street. One Jewish rabbi and our minister they got together in the idea and they made at the festival. Then they keep on going. They had one this year too also.
• [00:13:25] TED TROST: Yes, the ethnic festival.
• [00:13:26] FRANK KOKENAKES: Yes and they made pretty good.
• [00:13:28] HELEN KOKALES: First of all, our ladies, we used to give a bake sale. That's how we started. That brought the festival along. Says we give dinner with that, be much better and everything else.
• [00:13:45] TED TROST: Well, you mentioned earlier, both of you did about your families. I want to ask a question. As the second generation begins to get Americanized, do they drift away from the Greek community, or are they still a part?
• [00:14:04] HELEN KOKALES: Some of them.
• [00:14:05] FRANK KOKENAKES: Some yes and some no. Be honest about it.
• [00:14:09] HELEN KOKALES: Yes.
• [00:14:11] FRANK KOKENAKES: They feel like they want to get out now. All my kids married a Greek. But one of my son he married the American woman, which it's very pleased me just the same because she's a good lady, just the same. I don't suppose make much difference what he gets married, American woman or Greek woman. Woman is a lady is a lady, that's so you can't help it what it is. But, they feel they spoke more English than the old generation. Maybe my English is broke, but I do the best I can anyway.
• [00:14:44] TED TROST: You're very funny.
• [00:14:45] HELEN KOKALES: That's right.
• [00:14:46] FRANK KOKENAKES: The kids, they're satisfied with their wives and we don't believe in divorces. That's one thing about it. But a lot of them, they do take divorce. But the Greek people don't believe in divorce.
• [00:14:57] TED TROST: Yes, I know that they've always had a very close family tie and honored the marriage. Are there any more Greeks, new Greeks coming?
• [00:15:07] HELEN KOKALES: Many.
• [00:15:07] FRANK KOKENAKES: Many coming.
• [00:15:08] HELEN KOKALES: They come from the all country.
• [00:15:10] TED TROST: They're coming?
• [00:15:11] HELEN KOKALES: Yes.
• [00:15:11] FRANK KOKENAKES: Yes.
• [00:15:12] HELEN KOKALES: We have, I would say 50% this year, last year and this year. One brother is here, you bring the family right along. The next brother, mother and father. If they like to stay they don't, they go back.
• [00:15:29] TED TROST: Well, big population.
• [00:15:30] HELEN KOKALES: But mostly they stay because they found jobs here. See in the small villages, they don't have anything and they all move to Athens.
• [00:15:40] FRANK KOKENAKES: Tripoli.
• [00:15:41] HELEN KOKALES: Tripoli and then they go to Germany, most of them. Because they did have a lot of big job, open job in Australia.
• [00:15:49] TED TROST: We know there's strife in the country and that leads to another question. Do you at all follow with interest, the political events that are going on?
• [00:16:00] FRANK KOKENAKES: In Cyprus? Yes.
• [00:16:02] TED TROST: In Cyprus.
• [00:16:02] HELEN KOKALES: For Cyprus, we try to help all we can. Yes. We send clothing and money. I just was reading the paper, the Bishop, Archbishop from New York. He sent over $100,000 firsthand.
• [00:16:19] TED TROST: That must be quite a terrible strife in the country.
• [00:16:23] FRANK KOKENAKES: Well it is.
• [00:16:24] HELEN KOKALES: You see, we didn't get much help from here. They said, like I read in the papers. I don't know if it's true. They weren't prepared for this war from the Turks.
• [00:16:41] TED TROST: Do you think that situation will ever be resolved? It's been like that for so long.
• [00:16:45] FRANK KOKENAKES: I don't know.
• [00:16:46] HELEN KOKALES: This after so many years then they started over again. I don't know.
• [00:16:49] FRANK KOKENAKES: Cyprus belongs to Greece 430 years ago. But now the English got it, then the Turkish got it and the English got it. Then once English and French, they gave it to Greece and there were 460,000 Greeks and 100,000 Turks in there. That's where the squabble starts with the Turks and this. The Turkish now they started. It's just the Turkish, they're not very far from Cyprus.
• [00:17:23] HELEN KOKALES: You could see it from Rhodes. You could see the territory.
• [00:17:29] FRANK KOKENAKES: Twenty miles inside where the Turkey is where they went to, 20 miles inside. There's 200,000 population. They starve to death, no homes, no jobs, nothing.
• [00:17:41] HELEN KOKALES: It's on both sides. The isn't just the Greeks. It's Turks, too.
• [00:17:46] TED TROST: Then you are following?
• [00:17:48] HELEN KOKALES: Well, we're trying to help.
• [00:17:50] TED TROST: With this thing, you're trying to help?
• [00:17:51] HELEN KOKALES: They all do.
• [00:17:52] TED TROST: I want to ask you one more question. As you look back over your time here in Ann Arbor, what have you enjoyed best about having come to this country having lived here?
• [00:18:04] HELEN KOKALES: Good life. American is good life and you can raise your children with different education if you want to economize. Because we didn't have money, but my children work all way through to their school to the finish University. All of them. They had different jobs. Even the doctor, the youngest one had scholarship, all through the medical school.
• [00:18:31] TED TROST: Must bring you a great satisfaction
• [00:18:33] HELEN KOKALES: Very proud and happy. They sent him to Greece for the scholarship for three months. He's back. Now he's got a nice job in Columbus.
• [00:18:43] TED TROST: And I'm sure you're happy that you came to this country too?
• [00:18:47] HELEN KOKALES: Yes, we all are.
• [00:18:48] FRANK KOKENAKES: I always say if I was in Greece, I'd probably been dead of all the wars they had over.
• [00:18:55] HELEN KOKALES: She brought her mother after a while. When my father went back, he died. She was 53 and we brought my mother in 1936, was it?
• [00:19:06] FRANK KOKENAKES: Yes, and she died at 54.
• [00:19:07] HELEN KOKALES: She died at 51.
• [00:19:09] TED TROST: Fifty-one or 52?
• [00:19:10] HELEN KOKALES: Fifty-one.
• [00:19:11] TED TROST: Well, I've certainly enjoyed talking with you and appreciate your hospitality. [OVERLAPPING] Good luck to you both, Mr. Kokenakes.
• [00:19:22] FRANK KOKENAKES: Thank you very much.
• [00:19:24] TED TROST: Mrs. Kokales.