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There Went The Neighborhood - Studio Interview: Cheryl O'Neal

When: February 28, 2022

Cheryl (Jewett) O’Neal grew up in “The Old Neighborhood” before moving to the North side of Ann Arbor in 1960. Although she only attended Jones School in kindergarten, she had strong ties to friends and family in the neighborhood. She remembers the Dunbar Center and the Student Parent Center in the Jones building.

This interview was filmed during the making of the documentary film There Went The Neighborhood: The Closing of Jones School, produced by the Ann Arbor District Library and 7 Cylinders Studio. More interviews are available in the There Went The Neighborhood Interview Archive.

Transcript

  • [00:00:05] TOKO SHIIKI: Rolling.
  • [00:00:07] DONALD HARRISON: I'm Donald Harrison with 7 Cylinders Studio. We're in Ypsilanti, Michigan with Cheri O'Neal for the Ann Arbor District Library's Jones School project. Let's have you say your name and who you're with to start.
  • [00:00:20] CHERYL ONEAL: I am Cheryl O'Neal, and this is my grandson, Roman William, and he is a little over three months old.
  • [00:00:30] DONALD HARRISON: Excellent.
  • [00:00:32] CHERYL ONEAL: And very inquisitive.
  • [00:00:34] DONALD HARRISON: We might be hearing him a little bit throughout the interview so if you want to have him exit stage right, then we can get started.
  • [00:00:52] CHERYL ONEAL: Okay.
  • [00:00:57] DONALD HARRISON: He's like, "Wait!".
  • [00:00:57] CHERYL ONEAL: "Wait a minute, I was having my moment!"
  • [00:00:58] DONALD HARRISON: Okay, thank you.
  • [00:00:58] CHERYL ONEAL: You're welcome.
  • [00:01:01] DONALD HARRISON: Let's have you again so do intro with your full name and any other family names or nicknames you could be known by.
  • [00:01:10] CHERYL ONEAL: My full name is Cheryl Lynn O'Neal. Always been called Cheri by family and close friends, so that's what I prefer. I also use my mother's maiden name of Jewett.
  • [00:01:24] TOKO SHIIKI: I feel you're so far away, could you float maybe to this side?
  • [00:01:30] DONALD HARRISON: Yeah. Let's see.
  • [00:01:35] CHERYL ONEAL: Too far away?
  • [00:01:38] TOKO SHIIKI: Now, I can see.
  • [00:01:40] DONALD HARRISON: Now you can see?
  • [00:01:46] TOKO SHIIKI: Yeah, no problem.
  • [00:01:47] DONALD HARRISON: That's good?
  • [00:01:49] TOKO SHIIKI: Mhm. Cheryl, can you say something?
  • [00:01:51] CHERYL ONEAL: Testing, testing.
  • [00:01:54] TOKO SHIIKI: So much better.
  • [00:01:55] DONALD HARRISON: Is that better?
  • [00:01:55] TOKO SHIIKI: So much better.
  • [00:01:56] DONALD HARRISON: You can't see it?
  • [00:01:57] TOKO SHIIKI: Nope, I can't see.
  • [00:02:00] DONALD HARRISON: Great. Let's make sure that's in the archival edition, a little microphone adjustment. I love knowing these will be transcripted. Hello, transcriber. Thank you. Let's just have you do that one more time.
  • [00:02:15] CHERYL ONEAL: Okay, do it again.
  • [00:02:17] DONALD HARRISON: Your name, names?
  • [00:02:19] CHERYL ONEAL: My name is Cheryl Lynn O'Neal. I go by Cheri for family and close friends, they've always called me that and I also use my mother's maiden name of Jewett.
  • [00:02:30] DONALD HARRISON: Cheri, when were you born?
  • [00:02:32] CHERYL ONEAL: I was born on January 12th, 1954, in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
  • [00:02:38] DONALD HARRISON: Where did you grow up, and how would you describe it?
  • [00:02:43] CHERYL ONEAL: I was first born at our home at 520 Miner Street. At that time, my grandparents were living in the family home, which is in Kerrytown on Kingsley. Shortly after that, we moved to the family home, and my grandparents, who are my mother's parents, moved to 820 Daniel Street. They built a home there off of Summit. Then, my mom and dad and me and my two brothers moved into 209 East Kingsley.
  • [00:03:14] DONALD HARRISON: Is that where you lived all growing up?
  • [00:03:17] CHERYL ONEAL: I lived there up until my second semester of kindergarten at Jones School, and then we moved over to the Northside of Ann Arbor, 1615 Pear Street, which was the main home for me growing up, up until I left home at 17.
  • [00:03:37] DONALD HARRISON: Your parents, what were their name, what do they do for work?
  • [00:03:40] CHERYL ONEAL: My father was William J. Rocky O'Neal, Jr. He worked at the Ann Arbor News for 35 years. He started out working on the paper press and making the steel plates for the newspapers, and then, in his later years, he became a janitorial maintenance supervisor for the building. My mother, Iva Lillian Jewett O'Neal, was also born in Ann Arbor. I'm sorry. My father was born in Steelton, Pennsylvania, and came from there to Detroit and then to Ann Arbor, and that's when he and my mother met. My mother was born in Ann Arbor, actually in the house at 209 East Kingsley, along with her older sister and younger brother. She worked at the University Hospital for years as a ward clerk. Then, in her later years, she worked for the Ann Arbor Public Schools as a teacher aid.
  • [00:04:43] DONALD HARRISON: Any siblings?
  • [00:04:45] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes, three older brothers. That would be my oldest brother, Stanley, who was not raised with us. He was my mother's first child, and due to circumstances beyond her control, he was adopted up to an aunt of hers, and he didn't come back into our lives until much later, until when he was in his 30s. That's when I met him. Then there's my brother Ricky, Richard Mark, who was killed in Vietnam in 1968. Then my brother William Bruce, who we called Bruce, and then me. Then my next youngest sister would be Lori, then Stevie, and then Shannon. I'm the middle child.
  • [00:05:31] DONALD HARRISON: Cheri, how would you describe the Ann Arbor you grew up in? What stands out for you when you think back on your childhood in Ann Arbor and those neighborhoods?
  • [00:05:42] CHERYL ONEAL: It was just families, very family-oriented. We all had very good relationships with very large families, it seemed. It was usually at least, I would say, four more kids per family. It's like you knew the O'Neals, the Jewett, the Dixons, the Joneses. You knew everybody by family. Everybody spent time together, we went to school together, we went to parties together. It was just very family oriented and it was very safe. We walked to school. basically. I lived on the Northside like I said, from the time I was in my second year of kindergarten up until high school, and we walked all the way from the Northside to the Westside, Forsythe every day because back then, there were no buses. That was just the norm for us, we walked to and from school. Once again, it was safe. I just remember having a lot of fun. There were activities for the kids on every playground back then. My uncle Beav, we called him Beav, Coleman Jewett, was the supervisor at West Park for many years. Everybody got to know him there and also from the farmers market. There were always activities for us to keep us out of trouble. There's always something to do.
  • [00:07:12] DONALD HARRISON: You were, sounds like about five or six years old when your family moved from what's now called Kerrytown to Northside. It was like Pontiac Trail, what's now a STEAM School, is that in that area?
  • [00:07:26] CHERYL ONEAL: It was back then, it was Northside Elementary School. That's where we lived like a stone's throw from there, so we were able to walk to school every day. It was like, our house was right there, Pear Street, there's Taylor, there's the school. You could walk. I went there until sixth grade, yes.
  • [00:07:44] DONALD HARRISON: Were you then also coming back down to the Jones area, to the old neighborhood?
  • [00:07:49] CHERYL ONEAL: All the time.
  • [00:07:50] DONALD HARRISON: Were you coming to the churches or the Dunbar Center, or what was the back-and-forth between those two?
  • [00:07:55] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes, it was back and forth because there was always something going on there. Still, there were still some family still living in the neighborhood. We would go to the Dunbar, and then later, it became the Community Center on Main Street. We also visited our friends' homes. Like my sister-in-law Jeannie Dixon, their family was still living there all those years, so the connection was still there. There was the church, of course, Bethel AME Church, which was a hub for us too. She needs the bag. Jeanie. I know what he did. She's got a surprise.
  • [00:08:43] DONALD HARRISON: We won't tell. We all have our secrets here. You were saying, you grew up in that neighborhood, then you were coming back there a lot. How would you describe the old neighborhood in terms of when you were growing up? Who was there? Did it feel like the whole Black community was pretty much based there? Was it mixed, or was it pretty mostly Black at that point?
  • [00:09:15] CHERYL ONEAL: It was definitely Black at that time. There was one next-door neighbor that I was just thinking about this morning. If my mother was still alive, she could tell me her last name, but she was an older Caucasian lady that was widowed, or maybe she was just single all her life, and she lived right next door to us, and she was the only Caucasian that I ever remembered living in our neighborhood back then. It pretty much remained that way for many years. But, then when gentrification came in, and like my parents were, I hate to use the word a victim of it, but they were because they were not really understanding what they were buying into when it happened. When they were told, "Here's a better place for you over on the Northside of Ann Arbor. We'll give you this much money if you sell this house." Because later the value of those homes went way up. It happened to my grandparents too, over on Daniel. They built their home for about $5,000, it was a craft home, it was beautiful. They paid $5,000 in the '50s. A couple of years ago, it was sold for $300,000. The person that bought it tore it completely down and built a totally new home on that property. I've seen it over and over, and I know many friends that I grew up with that it happened to. Even though we had a good life, I'm not saying we didn't have a good life on the Northside, it was great, I enjoyed our home, but to look back on it now, it's like we were robbed of our generational wealth because my grandparents built those homes.
  • [00:10:49] DONALD HARRISON: At the time your family moved to the Northside, what was that neighborhood like? Was it also predominantly Black? Was it more mixed? How do you describe the area you moved to?
  • [00:11:03] CHERYL ONEAL: At that time, it was Black again because all of the people that moved into that area were under the same gentrification, although they didn't realize it at the time, they were moving us out from all different parts of town and it became a new Black neighborhood. But it was good. It was great. We met many new families, and once again, we were all close knit. We could go to each other's homes. We ate at each other's homes. We spent the night with each other. We were always safe. Our parents knew where we were. It was great coming up that way, but it was definitely by design.
  • [00:11:40] DONALD HARRISON: I think we were talking to somebody else about how there were these other little pockets that formed had that been a historically Black neighborhood when your family moved there or was it a newer neighborhood that was people were moving into?
  • [00:11:54] CHERYL ONEAL: I believe it was that the whites were moving out and into the more promising neighborhoods that we were moving out of. It was like trading places. If you went further down Pontiac, there was more of a diverse group of individuals. As you went away from this one little hub, what we call the fruit loop, because we lived on Pear Street. There was Pear, Peach, Apple, Plum still there. We were in the fruit loop. It was predominantly Black. Then if you went down Pontiac, it got to be a little more mixed. We have Italians and Jewish and Catholic family that we used to spend a lot of time. It was very diverse, but it wasn't in our little fruit loop pub. It was going to the outskirts in either direction toward town or further out Pontiac Trail.
  • [00:12:50] DONALD HARRISON: I haven't heard that yet about the fruit loop.
  • [00:12:52] CHERYL ONEAL: Yeah. We were the fruit loop.
  • [00:12:54] DONALD HARRISON: Cheri, were you taking bus to get back to the church and the Dunbar, were you walking? What was that like and what were you coming back for? You started talking about the church.
  • [00:13:05] CHERYL ONEAL: We walked everywhere. It's amazing because I hear kids complain today about walking, and it's like, if you know how far the Northside is to Forsythe, that's quite a walk to do every day morning and afternoon, but we did it year round, and we went to see our friends. We just walked or every now and then, we might get a ride from my father or somebody in the family might say, "Hey, I'll give you a ride," but that was not the norm.
  • [00:13:35] DONALD HARRISON: We're not going to probably talk too much about your experience at Jones because you went there just briefly, but can you tell us when you went to Jones and what you remember?
  • [00:13:45] CHERYL ONEAL: I remember kindergarten vividly, and I did come in contact with a couple of individuals that I went to school with over the years. I still remember it vividly. I remember the room. As a matter of fact, several years later, when I was 18, I ended up going back there when it was transitioning into Community High. They also had a program for a young mothers. They called it the Young Mothers program. At that time, I was a young married woman, but my son, I was 18, and I was going back to try to finish school, and I ended up in that very same room. It was my old classroom. That was really weird to go back into my kindergarten classroom, but I knew that it was it. Then many years later, my mother ended up working there in what they called the Student Parent Center in that very same room, but I just remember it being an old school. I enjoyed my time there. I don't remember very many details about it. I remember more about Northside.
  • [00:14:46] DONALD HARRISON: I'm going to have you mention the name of the school. Is there anything in terms of how close you lived to it or the fact that it was right in your neighborhood?
  • [00:14:59] CHERYL ONEAL: Northside?
  • [00:15:00] DONALD HARRISON: Jones.
  • [00:15:01] CHERYL ONEAL: Oh Jones School? Well, there are other things that happened there later. It was even though we left and went to the Northside, it always brought us back because at that time, because of the transition and it closing, we didn't understand any of that back then. We just knew that they weren't really having school there. It was other things were happening there. We would have like parties, cakewalks. One year, there was a group that tried to get together a group of Black Muslims, and we would have meetings there. I never knew who orchestrated using the facilities, but it seemed like they were always open and available to our community to use--somewhat like the Community Center--for different events.
  • [00:15:44] DONALD HARRISON: When you went to Jones, part of kindergarten, how would you describe it? Was it mostly Black in terms of the student body by that point? Then did they continue the events you're talking about? Did it feel like it was still part of the Black community for those events?
  • [00:16:01] CHERYL ONEAL: The events were definitely just for the Black community. As far as my classroom makeup, I remember it being diverse. It was starting to become diverse. Even my mother would tell me after going there as a child that even though they lived in that neighborhood, they had a diverse group of friends. She always told me she had friends that were Jewish and friends that were Greek and Italian and because Ann Arbor has always been a melting pot. They still congregated together and they schooled together. I remembered the diversity.
  • [00:16:37] DONALD HARRISON: It sounds like that was something that was important to your parents? Would you say that was.
  • [00:16:42] CHERYL ONEAL: It was. Because our family is from a mixed background anyway, so we were always taught to appreciate all cultures. I think that was great for us growing up because we were exposed to so many different cultures. We ate different foods. When we became adults--I meet adults today that have never had, like, Greek food or Thai food or and I'm like, how could you not? Our growing up was so diverse that we were exposed to all that at the young age. I thought that was really good and our parents were very keen on that to let us know that everyone was equal.
  • [00:17:25] DONALD HARRISON: Your mom, I think, was involved in AAPS, in the Ann Arbor Public Schools. I'm just curious what you would remember or be able to share about was she involved with things when Jones was getting closed?
  • [00:17:40] CHERYL ONEAL: I don't think she was really involved in that because that was our move. We moved, it would have been around 1960 because I was five. I was born in '54. I don't think she got involved in the politics or the ins and out of the closing. We were just starting our new life on the Northside so no, but later she became involved in the Ann Arbor Public Schools. After working at the hospital, she somehow decided to change careers, and her brother was already an educator. I think he convinced her to come on board and start doing some student teaching or teacher aide, and she started at Bach School with him one year. Then she went into, like I said, the Student Parent Center, and she really loved kids so that was just a natural thing for her.
  • [00:18:32] DONALD HARRISON: Do you have a sense of what her experience was in terms of the desegregation of the schools and the impact and how that played out or were you too young to have a sense of that?
  • [00:18:42] CHERYL ONEAL: I was too young for that, and she was very young when she got married too, and she basically dropped out of school at ninth grade. My mother was very intelligent, but she did not go beyond ninth grade because she got married, so young. She was 15 when she married my father, and he joined the army right away, so she was out on her own and then started raising children.
  • [00:19:06] DONALD HARRISON: For you, I'm thinking if you moved in kindergarten, you were about six out to the Northside. Then about four or five years later, Jones was closed, and students were then spread out. Tappan and Mack and Slauson, I believe.
  • [00:19:23] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes, Slauson.
  • [00:19:25] DONALD HARRISON: Did any of the kids from Jones come to Northside? Do you remember that happening or not so much?
  • [00:19:30] CHERYL ONEAL: I don't remember if any of them did.
  • [00:19:34] DONALD HARRISON: If they did, it wasn't enough to really registered as an event?
  • [00:19:38] CHERYL ONEAL: I wouldn't because then once we got to Northside, it was like we were so separated. We were always the only person of color in each class. They'd never put more than one or two in each class. It was otherwise predominantly white or other. We didn't really understand what was going on at the time.
  • [00:20:05] DONALD HARRISON: And to go from Jones, you weren't there long, but it was predominantly Black and into a school where you were one of the only kids in your classroom who was Black.
  • [00:20:19] CHERYL ONEAL: I didn't even know how to express it at the time, but I know it affected me because I became very withdrawn and quiet and shy. That was probably why, because I realized I was different. It did have an impact on me, but I didn't know what to call it then. I was too young. I don't even think I could even articulate it to my mother and father. They would just get reports. Cheryl is very quiet. She needs to engage more., that kind of thing, but back then, they didn't talk about that.
  • [00:20:54] DONALD HARRISON: Then how long did you stay at Northside? Was that through to junior high?
  • [00:20:59] CHERYL ONEAL: Sixth grade, because back then, we didn't have middle school, so we went directly from sixth grade to seventh, and that's when I went to Forsythe. That's when things changed because it was more diverse there. There were more Blacks there. You could pick and choose your group that you wanted to hang out with and everybody was hanging with everybody so color was not really an issue in junior high. It was different because we were more open to whoever, who you want to hang out with, it's okay.
  • [00:21:41] DONALD HARRISON: When you were growing up in the different schools that you moved to, did you feel like you were encountering racism, whether it was direct, we've heard various stories, or did it feel like if you, were that it was less obvious, or was that not really playing out in your schools?
  • [00:22:01] CHERYL ONEAL: It was less obvious in junior high, but then when we got to high school, that's when it became an issue because that's when we're getting to around the Black Power movement then in the early '70s, where we developed the Black Student Union, and we had walkouts and protests and things like that. It called attention to it, that we were different, but it was accepted in a way, and we were allowed to express it, but only to a certain degree.
  • [00:22:36] DONALD HARRISON: Where did you go to high school?
  • [00:22:36] CHERYL ONEAL: Huron.
  • [00:22:38] DONALD HARRISON: Okay. Because I know--and you would have graduated, was it '72?
  • [00:22:41] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes.
  • [00:22:42] DONALD HARRISON: That from, like, late '60s into early '70s, there was, like, some racial conflicts reported in the news. Was that anything that you encountered or do you remember anything about that happening?
  • [00:22:55] CHERYL ONEAL: I remember it, but I never experienced anything bad myself. I just remember that it was happening.
  • [00:23:04] DONALD HARRISON: Again, if you can reference the question in there because when you say, you remember it happening?
  • [00:23:08] CHERYL ONEAL: I remember some conflict happening during the early '70s as far as racism and walkouts in the Black Power movement, but I never personally had anything negative happen to me.
  • [00:23:24] DONALD HARRISON: Looking back on Jones, again, it's a center point for this project or the film, but it represents that whole neighborhood in the Black community, like centered in the heart of the Black community in many ways. What do you think that having Jones School there meant for the Black community or also that it's closure.
  • [00:23:48] CHERYL ONEAL: Well, I think what it meant for that community was that it was like a meeting place. It was a cornerstone that was stolen from us because it was shut down and we didn't understand why at the time. We just tried to hang onto what we could, having the different events there as long as we could and then eventually that faded out. The Community Center at that time became more of a meeting place because the one on Main Street was actually operating, and then they started having events there. Jones School just faded away. Then there was Kerrytown across the street. It was just there. We just remembered it. It was like a memory.
  • [00:24:38] DONALD HARRISON: Do you remember when Kerrytown became Kerrytown?
  • [00:24:40] CHERYL ONEAL: I do.
  • [00:24:42] DONALD HARRISON: Can you say anything about that?
  • [00:24:43] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes. When we were kids living right there at 290 East Kingsley, that was nothing but it was actually a feed center. It was not the farmers' market. It was an open market for farmers to come into town and buy their supplies. Then they had a little area where they would have penny candy. My parents would allow us to go over there and buy bubble gum and things like that. I remember, smelling the hay and all that. It was like farm. Then there was also Diroff's Market, which is right now where Zingerman's is and we used to do shopping there. We could go in there and buy penny candy, and my parents bought certain items there, the neighborhood. That was our store, because we didn't have a Kroger then. It was, like, later, A&P came along, but up until that point, that was all we had.
  • [00:25:32] DONALD HARRISON: Then do you remember roughly when and what getting called Kerrytown? What you thought of that?
  • [00:25:39] CHERYL ONEAL: It had been much later after we moved to the Northside, of course, where all of a sudden, I realized, I guess my first realization would have been when my Uncle Beav started his spot on the corner right by the door to Kerrytown. He was there for, like, 40 years, but that was his spot. Even before he sold his furniture, he sold African carved mask, and then my mother would make dashikis, and he would let her sell her things there too. We would always visit him at the market on Saturdays, so that became a routine thing that we enjoy going to the market.
  • [00:26:14] DONALD HARRISON: You said his nickname was?
  • [00:26:16] CHERYL ONEAL: Uncle Beav. That's Coleman Jewett, my mother's baby brother, but we called him Uncle Beav. My grandfather gave him the nickname of The Beaver when he was young, so we just always called him Uncle Beav. He was my favorite uncle, so I spent a lot of time with him. I just remember that would have called my attention to it becoming farmers' market because he was there, and he became a staple there.
  • [00:26:42] DONALD HARRISON: Do you remember at the time was it a sense of excitement about that? Was it something that was fun or welcome or like, hey, they're making it nicer, or was it a bad feeling of losing what had been there?
  • [00:26:56] CHERYL ONEAL: It was a good feeling to have the farmer's market come back or come into play as it did because it gave new meaning to the spot. It was actually more interesting than the open feed market was, anyway, because everyone had their wares, and you could buy fruits, vegetables, all things, and it was like a meeting place. It became a fun thing to do. To go to the market was fun.
  • [00:27:25] DONALD HARRISON: Cheri, that neighborhood that you grew up in when you were younger and then came back to. It had this whole farm area like where farmers were coming in and then it also had a more industrial area down towards the river where there's, like, a junkyard and coal.
  • [00:27:43] CHERYL ONEAL: Slaughterhouse.
  • [00:27:44] DONALD HARRISON: Can you describe that? Do you remember spending any time down there and what that was like?
  • [00:27:48] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes. We used to go to the park down there, which is now Wheeler Park. It wasn't called that then. It was Summit Park, and it's nothing like it is now. It was an actual park. It had a merry-go-round, and I remember us going down there a lot. I also remember when the pigs would get loose from the slaughterhouse and run through the park or the neighborhood, and you could hear them squealing, and it was a certain smell. You could always smell that, I guess you could just say pork smell. If you've ever cooked pork, which I don't eat at all anymore since I left home, no more, but my father did. He liked certain things that were pork, and it has a certain smell, certain odor to it. It was in the neighborhood. It was just in the air. That was just a normal thing for us. Then they finally got rid of the slaughterhouse and cleaned the park up, and it was a lot more pleasant to go to the park.
  • [00:28:43] DONALD HARRISON: Do you remember when you started to notice that neighborhood really changing, and did you start to feel a sense of that happening or the Black community starting to break apart or to not be the same?
  • [00:29:01] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes, because more and more families were leaving.
  • [00:29:06] DONALD HARRISON: I don't know if you can remember roughly when that would have been or give us some sense?
  • [00:29:10] CHERYL ONEAL: I would say in the '70s and '80s. As the families aged, they were either moving to other parts of town or the parents were passing away, and then the children were not able to either keep the home or decided not to. It just seemed to slowly fade. Then before we knew it, it was different. People were moving in and renovating and doing different things to the homes that were there. The church finally sold to someone and it turned into condos. Then the new church was built over on the Northside. That was Bethel AME. And Second Baptist went to the West side over on Red Oak and became a childcare center. It seemed to happen gradually and then all of a sudden, it was just everyone was gone. It was amazing how it happened because at one time you knew everyone, and then now, no one. You know no one there.
  • [00:30:17] DONALD HARRISON: It was really the center. It was the Black community.
  • [00:30:20] CHERYL ONEAL: It really was.
  • [00:30:21] DONALD HARRISON: Now, that seems like that's--
  • [00:30:24] CHERYL ONEAL: It's totally gone. There's the only lady that still lives there now as far as I know, Mrs. Hall, who lives in our old home at 209 East Kingsley, and I'm friends with her daughter, and I've been in there to look at the house inside. I visit them from time to time and keep in touch with them because she's as far as I know, and I think she's been there for over 50 years. She's holding on, and I'm sure her daughter will, too after because I think she's 92.
  • [00:30:54] DONALD HARRISON: When you think of those anchors, you've already mentioned them, the anchors of what really were the foundation of the community. What would you describe those as, Jones, I think, in some ways, having a neighborhood school, for the community was something that I would say is an anchor of a community and when that's closed. What would you describe as those other so like the church or?
  • [00:31:19] CHERYL ONEAL: The churches were anchors, for sure. There is a history about the churches because at one time there was one, and then there was a split. I can't remember the year that that actually happened, but once the churches left, it seemed like everything just fell apart. What else did we have to go back there for? Nothing much except to Kerrytown. That's about it. I think she's having trouble.
  • [00:31:51] DONALD HARRISON: Should we take a little Roman break? [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:31:56] DONALD HARRISON: You were saying, as far as changing worlds. I guess one of the questions is for us to get a sense of segregation in Ann Arbor from your point of view and what that was like within the neighborhoods that you were in. Then even were you going all over Ann Arbor? Did you feel welcome everywhere or did it feel like there was segregation when you were growing up that was really here?
  • [00:32:34] CHERYL ONEAL: I never felt segregation. One thing that I would always tell people because if I meet people, I have met people over the years, and they would say, "Where are you from?" And you say "Ann Arbor." They say, "Oh, how can you afford to live in Ann Arbor?" I say, "There are places that are affordable. You just have to know where to go." People have an idea that it is that way, but it's not. I've always said that I have to at least say that in the gentrification, it must have been pretty well thought out because they never really concentrated on one certain area just make it totally Black. It was dispersed. It was like, you can go to different parts of town, and you could never say, that's the Black part of town, because it's everywhere. There are pockets. I've never felt any racism or anything like that growing up. I was never called names, not by other races anyway. We have our own intra-racial type stuff. But I felt I've always felt comfortable going just about anywhere.
  • [00:33:44] DONALD HARRISON: What year would this be that you're growing up in?
  • [00:33:48] CHERYL ONEAL: I was a '70s child, as far as being conscious of what's going on. Now, my mother would tell me stories that she had growing up. Even though our family is of mixed race, we have family members of all different races. She would tell me stories about not feeling comfortable going certain places. Places being really for whites only, and she remembers that. She was exposed to it, but I was never overtly like that. I didn't really understand. If that was happening, I didn't get it.
  • [00:34:28] DONALD HARRISON: It's interesting you would have heard those stories. Did you feel like that must have changed by the time you were growing up? I wonder if it felt like for you growing up that there was progress having heard what it was like for her.
  • [00:34:44] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes. I definitely felt that there was progress because we were free to go basically anywhere we wanted to go, and we were safe to do it.
  • [00:34:54] DONALD HARRISON: Then in terms of your friends, did it feel like it was pretty integrated or mixed or the kids you were meeting in school were involved with the Dunbar Center or church who did?
  • [00:35:09] CHERYL ONEAL: It was different depending on where you congregate. If you went to church, it was predominantly Black, and that was your circle of friends. School was different because you had the diversity. We sometimes did things even outside of school. Two of my best friends were white and growing up, and we spent a lot of time together. I would go to her house, she would come to mine. She sent me a picture recently of us at the Detroit Zoo, and I went with her and her family. I don't even remember going, and we were like, I had to be, I think we were about 11. But for some reason I just can't remember it. It depended on the situation, I guess you could say, as far as who you spent time with, but it was always good. You felt comfortable doing it.
  • [00:36:04] DONALD HARRISON: I think when you talked to Heidi, you mentioned that diversity in the university town it sounded like that was something that your family valued, but it seems like something that maybe is an Ann Arbor value, or at least. Describe that or tell me about that.
  • [00:36:21] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes, diversity is definitely a good thing. I believe that it was great growing up that way because we always, as I mentioned earlier, had friends from all over. One year, I had someone in my classroom from about every country. We had England, Ireland, India, Brazil, Sweden. I could just name off all of these different countries. A lot of those kids came here and couldn't even speak English when they first got here, but we became friends and they learned English. We spent time in each other's homes, we ate their food, ate our food. It was to me a valuable thing to be able to do that at a young age, to have that appreciation of different cultures and be open minded about it and our parents encouraged that because that's the way their parents were.
  • [00:37:14] DONALD HARRISON: And Cheri, were there also any Black role models that stand out from when you were growing up? I know that a lot of the students who went to Jones talk about Mr. Perry, you wouldn't probably remember him too much because [OVERLAPPING] you went there so briefly, but your uncle Coleman, I think would maybe be one. But are there any other figures that stand out as mentors or role models for you and others when you were at that time?
  • [00:37:40] CHERYL ONEAL: Well, definitely my uncle. Mr. McFadden, Carroll McFadden. He lived around the corner from us on Fifth Ave. Their family was there. He was an educator also, and he had respect of all the kids, young people in the community. It was back then it was like we listened to what others told us, because we knew that what they were telling us was right. They weren't afraid to do it because they were all friends, and they knew each other, too. They would say, if you got in trouble, you get in trouble twice because you will get disciplined or berated by the parent that caught you doing it, and then you'd get it when you got home. By the time you got home they knew. It was a village. Let's see. I'm trying to think of others. Of course, our ministers. Reverend Carpenter was one of the oldest pastors at Second Baptist. Everyone knew him. Then there was Reverend John A. Woods, who was at Bethel. The figureheads were mostly either pastors, teachers, or educators, musicians. Some of the names escape me right now. Willis Patterson, he's another friend of the family.
  • [00:39:01] DONALD HARRISON: For you growing up as part of the Jewett family, I'm curious as your take on that as well. Did that carry any additional weight or responsibility or privileges or I think George had recently gotten a lot of attention.
  • [00:39:22] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes. Came a little late.
  • [00:39:26] DONALD HARRISON: Tell us just briefly what that was.
  • [00:39:29] CHERYL ONEAL: We didn't really find out about him until my uncle, Beav Coleman found out. It would have probably been when he was in his 30s. He started researching it, and he started sharing information with me because I'm the family historian. I have interest in that, so he knew that if you gave it to me, I would carry it on. I'm working on a book right now. But we didn't find out until later in life, so then it became a big deal and all know that, and I started researching it to find out more about his life. Having a Jewett name, well, I was born O'Neal, my father's name, so it was interesting because a lot of people that I even grew up with didn't realize I was a Jewett. My mother was a Jewett. I always called her the forgotten Jewett because she married O'Neal, and everybody would say, oh, your mother's a Jewett or Coleman is your uncle? Yes. It didn't come with any privileges. It was just, I would say, proud to be part of the family because my grandparents were such wonderful people, and I spent a lot of time with them at a young age before they died. They instilled a lot of the values in me that I have today. Hard work, appreciation of art, music, good food, cooking. We just did so many things together. I'm proud of the family name because of that and because my mother was a Jewett.
  • [00:41:01] DONALD HARRISON: Can you briefly tell me about George because we didn't say what recently happened, the acknowledgment.
  • [00:41:11] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes. They finally decided to create a trophy in his name, and it was presented at the October 23rd game between Northwestern and U of M, which he attended both. He started at U of M and then he transferred to Northwestern for the remainder of his time and finished his degree and also played there. He is the first African American to play football for both teams in 1890. A few years back, he was also honored at Pioneer High School with what they called the Hall of Honor being a class valedictorian for what was then Ann Arbor High. That's when it started to get in the news about him, I believe, and then U of M picked it up and said, well, we need to do a little bit more. He did become a doctor, so they honored him as Dr. George Henry Jewett. The trophy was made, it's a bronze trophy, and the teams will now rival for the trophy, the replica, which is small, because the one that's huge they say, it's not a locker room trophy or it is not, I can't remember how they put it but it's too big to carry around. They presented it at the game at half-time. They played for the trophy, and they'll continue to do that those two teams in his honor.
  • [00:42:32] DONALD HARRISON: Can you say his name again and his relationship as could be?
  • [00:42:35] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes. Dr. George Henry Jewett, II, and he is my great great grandfather on my mother's side, my maternal.
  • [00:42:47] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes.
  • [00:42:48] DONALD HARRISON: Thank you. I think there's also an aunt who is also pretty influential, Letty?
  • [00:42:52] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes, Letty Wickliffe.
  • [00:42:54] DONALD HARRISON: Can you tell me about her and if you can say her name, so we know who you are talking about.
  • [00:42:57] CHERYL ONEAL: Yes. Letty--Letitia Wickliffe, and she was my maternal grandfather's first cousin. I was very close to her, too. I guess you could say she was very well into the civil rights of Ann Arbor and politics, fair housing. She was also an educator, so she spent many years in Indianapolis working at a school for gifted children before coming back to Ann Arbor to start her, I guess you could say political career. She was very into it, very well known. She's a Republican and spoke her mind. That was a Zebbs trait, which is my grandfather's family name. He was a Jewett but his mother was a Zebbs. Father Jewett. Yes, she was a very strong woman, and I really enjoyed spending time with her.
  • [00:44:01] DONALD HARRISON: Were there any stories that you remember that stand out about her civil rights work in Ann Arbor, or what she was really trying to work towards?
  • [00:44:12] CHERYL ONEAL: She was just working toward fair housing. I think that was her main push and working with the city council on that. She never discussed it with me when we were together. We just spent time together and had leisure time and did fun things. My mother just told me that she was very outspoken. That's her claim to fame, I guess you could say.
  • [00:44:39] DONALD HARRISON: Is there any other follow up question with her that you would throw out there?
  • [00:44:45] HEIDI MORSE: Did you want to mention again? I don't know whether it's condos or apartments named in her honor when we were walking around the neighborhood?
  • [00:44:53] CHERYL ONEAL: I'm not sure, I don't know the story behind that. I need to find out because I don't really know.
  • [00:44:59] DONALD HARRISON: I actually remember when we were walking around too, there are a number of spots you were like, "Hey, right here is XYZ." Are there anything in the business district that stands out for you or that you think it's important to share to say?
  • [00:45:17] CHERYL ONEAL: Well, the further down street past the farmers' market and Jones School is Ann Street, which was the old, I guess you could say meeting spot for the African American community going way back. I have one grand uncle that had a barbershop there. All those businesses were Black but I understand that the owner of all the buildings was not. But they had very lucrative businesses. They had a pool hall, a couple of bars. They had a place called the Beer Garden. My father used to frequent there and every business was Black. That's who spent time there, even though not owned by, but they ran the businesses. It was a place that we were told we couldn't go when we were kids. It was like, "You don't go to Ann Street. Nope, if we ever hear about you going near there, you're in trouble." Because it was like ill repute. It was like, you don't go there, you don't spend time there, if you are an upstanding individual. Of course we had to try it because that made it seem more inviting because it was off limits.
  • [00:46:32] DONALD HARRISON: Did you get in on the action?
  • [00:46:35] CHERYL ONEAL: I went a couple of times, and I was very intimidated. I went to the pool hall once and I was scared and ready to leave. I went to one of the bars one time and didn't feel comfortable there. My parents were right, but I did have to see for myself. I never told them.
  • [00:46:52] DONALD HARRISON: Cheri, do you remember when that started to also change? It's probably not like one exact moment or time, but sounds like in the '70s that started to for various reasons. I don't know if you have any theory or any stories of that?
  • [00:47:10] CHERYL ONEAL: It started to fall apart, too, and I think it was because at that time, it was too close to the downtown renovation, I would call it, that they wanted to clean it up, make it inviting to everyone. You had the Art Fairs coming in. It was a bad image for Ann Arbor. Because of the drugs, it was like the impetus of it all. It was surrounding the drug trade. They started to crack down, and they started to do drug busts, and then they started closing each business down one by one, and before you knew it, it was shut down. I think that was really the reason that it was marring the image of downtown Ann Arbor and what they wanted people to see when they came here.
  • [00:48:00] DONALD HARRISON: It really seems like in your growing up, that things really shifted by the time we get into the '80s, would you say the Black community was still pretty strong there or not so much by the '80s?
  • [00:48:16] CHERYL ONEAL: No. It just seemed that everybody was dispersed and everything was different. Where at one time, you could go every day you went out, you'd see somebody you knew. Now you can go somewhere for weeks and not see anyone you know. It's like, everyone's a stranger. No one's from here. If you say you're from Ann Arbor, they look at you like, "You're what? You can't possibly be from Ann Arbor." Yes, I am born and raised. My mother, too. Her mother, too. It became a strange place to be because it was so different. I've been here all my life. I only left here for a period of time when I was working for the federal government of my 33 year career, I was working at Selfridge International Air Base for six years, and I moved down to Mount Clemens, and then I moved to Detroit when I worked at the Federal Building. The only time I was ever away was in the '80s for maybe six years. I would still come home and see my mother, but that's the only time I actually moved away. Then when I came back, it was really different, even more different.
  • [00:49:32] DONALD HARRISON: I'm curious too, because I know that a few people have talked about redlining and why the old neighborhood was mostly Black. I'm fogging up here. [LAUGHTER] But I'm curious if you would have a way of describing or the way that you understood that or when you understood what had been happening there also the racial covenants as far as housing, and if your mom or your aunt was involved in housing. I'm just curious if you have anything to add in terms of the understanding of why the Black neighborhood and community was where it was.
  • [00:50:12] CHERYL ONEAL: I didn't really understand it at the time. I believe that it was probably affordable at the time that they came into the neighborhoods, and then it just became one family would tell another and then they'd say, "Hey, this is a good place to live. You can get this property, and it's a good price, and it's easy to do." So they did it. Then when things started to change around it and build up like Kerrytown, farmer's market, and downtown, it became more valuable. When the Blacks were there, it wasn't valuable because they were there. Then all of a sudden, it became like prime property. I don't know what my Aunt Letty went through in that or that battle or the redlining. I know nothing about that or the covenants that I've just heard about recently. But I do know that all of a sudden the property became more valuable. Then they came in and seized it. It was deceptive practice.
  • [00:51:22] DONALD HARRISON: Is there any other questions that you'd want us to circle back to?
  • [00:51:31] HEIDI MORSE: I guess I had a question about thinking about your parents, when they met and started a young family, it was war time you said. I think that's also when more Black people ended up coming North to work in factories and whatnot, did your family talk about the changing demographics of that time period and what their reaction to it was?
  • [00:51:57] CHERYL ONEAL: Mine didn't talk about that much because, yes, it was wartime, but we didn't have any family from down South. My family was from out East, while my father, Pennsylvania, and my mother was from here, and then our other relatives from Canada. We didn't have the Southern influence so to speak, or the factory experience. My family all worked in traditional jobs. They started out when they came here as farmers. Most of them when I look up the census records, the ones from Canada were either farmers or, well, my great grandfather was a blacksmith. There were different trades and none of my family worked in a plant. I never knew what that experience was like. My father was in World War II, when he came back, he started working at the Ann Arbor News. He was fortunate enough to get a good job there and he stayed there until he retired. I don't understand that, the Southern migration, other than reading about it, our family was not affected by that.
  • [00:53:10] HEIDI MORSE: I guess part of it was-- [OVERLAPPING] Go ahead.
  • [00:53:11] TOKO SHIIKI: Even if she is asking some question, could you talk to Donald? [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:53:19] CHERYL ONEAL: Okay. Sorry.
  • [00:53:19] TOKO SHIIKI: No problem.
  • [00:53:19] DONALD HARRISON: Thanks, Toko.
  • [00:53:23] HEIDI MORSE: I guess I was thinking, since your family has been here so many generations, I wondered whether it shifted racial dynamics in Ann Arbor when suddenly, a new set of people from the South, especially, were coming into the area. Even going up through like the '60s and '70s, when civil rights and protest movements were coming up even in the schools in conflict, like if just coming from different perspectives, having lived in the South versus living in Ann Arbor, if that played into any of those conflicts. I don't know if that makes sense?
  • [00:54:09] DONALD HARRISON: It does. I don't know if you would answer it..
  • [00:54:11] CHERYL ONEAL: Can you reframe it, maybe?
  • [00:54:14] DONALD HARRISON: I guess the question would be if you noticed the impact of that. That would have well, I guess that would be before her time, though, I guess.
  • [00:54:26] CHERYL ONEAL: The southern migration?
  • [00:54:27] HEIDI MORSE: It's just about family backgrounds and priorities.
  • [00:54:32] DONALD HARRISON: Like a lot of the kids that you would have grown up with were Black, their parents would have--not all, but a lot of them--would have been Southerners. Did that feel like culturally any thing that played out?
  • [00:54:42] CHERYL ONEAL: No. Not in Ann Arbor. We always had a thing where we'd say, most of the people like that lived in Ypsilanti. We used to call it Ypsi-tucky [LAUGHTER] because it seemed like all the Southern families lived in Ypsilanti that came from the South. They were different. It was a different type of upbringing and a different way of even the dialect, everything was different. I admit we separated ourselves from them because it was them and us. They felt the same way about us. "They're from Ann Arbor. They're Ann Arbor, and they're all that." It's just the way it was.
  • [00:55:27] DONALD HARRISON: Are there any activities from growing up that really stand out that really come to mind when you think of, any things that you've participated in, any jump out at you?
  • [00:55:41] CHERYL ONEAL: Well, the main thing we had that we don't have today, the kids don't have a lot of outside play. We had playgrounds. We had activities at every single park and playground throughout the summer to keep us busy. During the winter, there was an ice rink at every single park, which the city put down every year. We ice skated. We always had something to do, and we were always outside. Kids today just don't seem to do that. Or we would spend time at the library. That was a big thing. That was an outing for us to go to the library, or the bookmobile basically was before the library because the bookmobile would come to our neighborhood and park right down the street and we could go and check out books.
  • [00:56:27] DONALD HARRISON: Cheri, as you are now raising this young gentleman, three months old, and you think about the Ann Arbor he's going to grow up in, what would the things that you would hope he gets that you thought were really positive and what are any of the things that you're worried about in terms of changes or things that you aren't as happy about?
  • [00:56:55] CHERYL ONEAL: Loaded question? I hope that things continue to get better education-wise. They seem to be opening up more and more magnet-type schools, private schools. There's one that just opened up near my home this week because I want him to get a good education like I did. I want him to know the diversity because he's interracial too, so he needs to know all about that. I think I'm a good person to teach him that and give him that experience and guide him through it. Being the mother of three young Black men, I always constantly worry about them. That's been a thing for the last several years. They're all grown now. His father, my youngest son, is 34 next week. I have a 44-year-old and a 50-year-old, and I have six other grandchildren. I worry about them not having opportunities, that's all. I hope that it doesn't change. I hope that they can still get the same opportunities that I had, that my family had. I just hope it gets better.
  • [00:58:11] DONALD HARRISON: Is there anything that we didn't ask you about Ann Arbor when you were growing up that you think is important to share, whether reflecting back on it now or remembering back to those memories that really just stand out or you think are good to capture?
  • [00:58:34] CHERYL ONEAL: I can't think of anything else. That pretty much sums it all up. It was a good life. I'm still happy to be here today. My mother and I are the only ones that stayed here out of all my siblings. Everyone else moved to other states. She and I both love Ann Arbor. She always said, please don't ever take me away from here, and I didn't. She lived here until her dying day. I hope I can too. It's a great place to live. I feel safe. I feel fortunate and it's my home.
  • [00:59:10] DONALD HARRISON: Is there anything else that you'd want to add on.
  • [00:59:23] HEIDI MORSE: I guess if there's any more details you recall about the, I forget the name of it, but the young parents group that you attended in the same preschool classroom. Just what was that organization like and do you remember any other similar type things that met in the Jones Building during that time period?
  • [00:59:44] CHERYL ONEAL: That's the only one that I know of outside of the actual traditional classroom. It was just the Student Parent program which they developed there. Then later when they closed it down, they moved it out to Stone School, to the school out there. As far as I know it's still operating because my mother worked there too, and it's just for young mothers so that they can continue their education after having a child, which is a great program.
  • [01:00:19] DONALD HARRISON: Any final thoughts on Ann Arbor opportunities, you just addressed that. Again it's hard not to notice the changes, but I think that's going to be the case anywhere so just don't worry. I think Ann Arbor, there's definitely this big question of gentrification and how that's affecting Ann Arbor and, the Black community in particular. We've talked about that already, but I don't know if there's any concerns about what's already happened and where it's heading in terms of that.
  • [01:01:02] CHERYL ONEAL: The only thing that I see is that there are less and less Blacks. I know that they basically priced them out, that's where they end up moving to the outskirts either Ypsilanti, or Canton is maybe a little more affordable. But if you don't know where to go in Ann Arbor, like the condo that I'm in, my mother talked me into buying back in 2004 when she bought, and we were able to get a really good price, and it's a good location. I plan to stay there because she wanted that for me. Hopefully, I can pass that along to my kids and my grand-kids. But the majority of Ann Arbor is not affordable. It just seems to be systematic to me to push people out to make it not affordable anymore.