Legacies Project Oral History: Ruth Zweifler

Tue, 12/10/2019 - 11:00am

When: 2018

Ruth Zweifler was born 1929 in Palisades, New Jersey. She graduated from Bryn Mawr College, and converted from Judaism to Quakerism. Since the 1960s, she has been active in Civil Rights, anti-war, and anti-Zionist protests, including a sit-in at Ann Arbor City Hall protesting residential segregation. In 1975, Zweifler co-founded the Student Advocacy Center of Michigan, and she was Executive Director for nearly 30 years.

Ruth Zweifler was interviewed by students from Skyline High School in Ann Arbor in 2018 as part of the Legacies Project.

Transcript

[00:00:10.08] ELLIE: OK, hi, Ruth.
[00:00:11.88] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Hi, Ellie.
[00:00:12.78] ELLIE: Please say and spell your name for me.
[00:00:15.25] RUTH ZWEIFLER: My name is Ruth, R-U-T-H, Zweifler, Z, as in zebra, W, E, as in Edward, I, as in Ice, F, as in Frank, L-E-R. And it means doubter.
[00:00:28.38] ELLIE: Oh, that's--
[00:00:29.26] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yes, which I married it, but it is.
[00:00:32.72] ELLIE: That's really sweet. Can you now tell me your birth date and including the year?
[00:00:37.89] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, September 26, 1929, soon.
[00:00:42.06] ELLIE: Really soon, yeah. Happy early birthday.
[00:00:44.28] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Thank you.
[00:00:45.72] ELLIE: And how would you describe your ethnic background?
[00:00:48.84] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, I was raised in a Jewish family and then was introduced to Quakers when I went to college. And when we moved to Ann Arbor in 1960, I began attending Friends meeting. And I'm now a member.
[00:01:08.73] ELLIE: So what would you say your current religious affiliation is, if any?
[00:01:12.96] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Society of Friends, yeah, Quakers.
[00:01:15.66] ELLIE: Could you talk a little bit more about that?
[00:01:18.73] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, you wanted brief answers, but this is-- so this might be a little bit longer, probably. When I was in third grade, we moved from Palisades, New Jersey, where I was Jewish. I had a friend who was Jewish. I had friends who were Catholic. And Jewish was sort of an adjective.
[00:01:44.31] And then I moved to Bogota, New Jersey, where we were one of the first Jewish families. And suddenly, Jewish became a noun. I mean, it was what I was somehow. And that was somewhat startling. And I forget the question. You told me to be brief. And I should have been brief.
[00:02:08.30] ELLIE: Your current religious belief.
[00:02:09.26] RUTH ZWEIFLER: My current-- OK, so anyway, what drew me to Friends was their sense of inclusiveness of all people, of accepting whoever you are as you are. And that, to me, feels very comfortable and very-- that and their peace testimony, about which I'm militant.
[00:02:34.05] ELLIE: So what's the highest level of formal education you've completed?
[00:02:39.18] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I have an AB from Bryn Mawr College in Biology. It was a mistake.
[00:02:47.02] ELLIE: What is your current marital status?
[00:02:48.96] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I'm married to Andy Zweifler. We've been married-- we met in college and married in 1954.
[00:02:59.52] ELLIE: How many years have you been married?
[00:03:00.78] RUTH ZWEIFLER: What is that, 62? Something like that.
[00:03:05.17] ELLIE: And how many children do you have?
[00:03:06.66] RUTH ZWEIFLER: We have five birth children and an adopted daughter.
[00:03:13.44] ELLIE: How many siblings do you have personally?
[00:03:16.05] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I have twin brother and sister who are four and a half years younger.
[00:03:18.96] ELLIE: Wow. So what would you consider your primary occupation to have been, even though I know it moved around a lot, your primary?
[00:03:29.90] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, after college, I worked in a lab briefly. Then after I was married, I-- you know what? I can't remember the name of the organization. It was a sort of a public service organization-- for a year.
[00:03:45.23] And then my primary career time has been spent-- I was one of the founders of the Student Advocacy Center. And after it was formalized, I became the Executive Director and retired in maybe 2004 or '05. I never took a paid position, because we never had enough money for the organization-- too much to do and too little money. And I continue on the board of the Student Advocacy Center and Michigan Council for Crime and Delinquency.
[00:04:28.48] ELLIE: What are you doing with that currently, specifically?
[00:04:30.98] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Michigan?
[00:04:31.44] ELLIE: Yeah.
[00:04:32.74] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Just on the board, but really looking at issues around mass incarceration-- I personally think we shouldn't incarcerate anybody.
[00:04:43.96] ELLIE: And why is that?
[00:04:46.48] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Because I think we define crime by the actor, not the act. And I see so many parallel situations where somebody gets really, really from school right through to adulthood, where a person is either forgiven, or excused, or condemned and punished.
[00:05:11.29] ELLIE: Yeah, so now we're going to begin-- that was more of like an introduction and getting to know you. So now we're going to begin the first part of our interview. The first thing we're going to talk a little bit about is your family naming history. So I would like to know if you have any stories about your family name and where it came from.
[00:05:30.82] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well my maiden name was Laplace. And it's French. But the family-- my father's family was from Romania. And apparently, Romanian is a romance language. But if somebody would like to help me with ancestors.com or whatever it is, I would love it, because all-- we have so many relatives with French names. And I mean, I have an uncle who is Louis Jacques, and Giselle, and a just long list of names of-- so I don't know anything about it.
[00:06:12.31] ELLIE: Are there any naming traditions in your family, the old one or the new one after you were married?
[00:06:18.66] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No, I mean, we were going to name our first son John Christopher. And my dad did not like that. So he's John Andrew.
[00:06:34.30] ELLIE: Do you know why your ancestors left to come to the United States?
[00:06:38.01] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, I think it probably had to do with pogroms. But again, I don't know. I don't know.
[00:06:47.16] ELLIE: When your family first came or before, if you know, do you know how they made a living or what anyone in your family's faith?
[00:06:57.21] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well again, I really should spend time sorting out, but I really should be looking, because especially my dad's family, I always knew that he never went beyond, I think, eighth grade. But he played the cello. All of his siblings played instruments. Music has been a very important part of his life, our lives. And I just think there is a lot of story there that I don't know, and would at some point like to get to know it better.
[00:07:35.51] ELLIE: Do you know if any of your family stayed back and some came over?
[00:07:42.35] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I don't really know. I think my sister went to-- not Budapest, where it it? I forgot-- and saw a very distant cousin many years ago. But no, I don't know. And as I said, the whole musical tradition that was in cousins and whatever is just a puzzle.
[00:08:07.30] ELLIE: That was actually my next question. That you know of, did your family make any effort to preserve any traditions or customs from their country of origin or like any religious traditions that you've stuck with?
[00:08:20.36] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, I mean, I remember my grandma lighting the Sabbath candles and saying the prayers. But no, I don't have a real sense of traditions beyond those real traditional religious events.
[00:08:41.04] ELLIE: So has there been any stories that your parents, or grandparents, or distant ancestors you've heard about or they told you you?
[00:08:52.16] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No. Again, I sort of started. My dad said he didn't go beyond eighth grade, but he played the cello in some orchestras, not professionally, but amateur, respectable orchestras. He met my mother. My mother was a private secretary for a Wall Street stockbroker. And they met on Wall Street. So he somehow was on Wall Street at one point.
[00:09:28.09] And I have a picture of him as a young man in a Naval uniform. I never asked. See, it's good that you're doing this. And then he went from that. He and his brother established a chemical manufacturing company. And it was really quite successful. So you know, I don't know where he got the information, how he did it, but he did it. He worked long hours.
[00:10:00.96] ELLIE: You just kind of answered my next question also, so that was good. It was, do you know how your parents met, or how your grandparents, or any other ancestors?
[00:10:11.67] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No, I don't. I mean, that's my dad's family. My mom's grandfather lived in this wonderful brownstone on Riverside Drive in New York. And I don't know where he got his money or what he did. And this was right next door to this very large Schwab estate. It's, I think, on 72nd and Riverside Drive or someplace around there. And again, I have no idea where any of this came from.
[00:10:50.19] ELLIE: So now we're going to talk a little bit about your childhood up until you began attending school. If you remember a lot about that, we'll see. So my first question is, where did you grow up? And what are your strongest memories of that place?
[00:11:07.95] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well I said, we first lived on Edgewood Lane in Palisades, New Jersey, which is right across the river from New York, and were there until third grade. My earliest memory was when my twin brother and sister arrived. And I think it isn't a happy one. And then the move to Bogota, New Jersey was, I think, sort of, again, unsettling in the sense that suddenly I was aware that people could be other, and didn't like it, and don't like it for anybody.
[00:11:46.62] ELLIE: Why did your family start in New Jersey? Do you know?
[00:11:51.90] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Probably because they could afford it. I mean, we were evicted. That's another memory I have. The house on Edgewood Lane was really, I recall being very beautiful and having a large--
[00:12:03.24] ELLIE: I was just about to ask what it was like, yeah.
[00:12:05.06] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Hm?
[00:12:05.31] ELLIE: I was just about to ask what it was like.
[00:12:07.14] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah. But it was rented. And I remember somebody putting a sign up saying either evicted, or you know, that this was no longer our house, and my dad tearing it down in anger. But we did move. We did move.
[00:12:31.09] So this is the post-Depression. This is 19-- what? I'm just trying to think. Well, it had to have been seven years after, so about 1935, which is still the after effects of the Depression.
[00:12:50.10] ELLIE: How many years did you live in that house before you moved?
[00:12:53.04] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, 'till third grade.
[00:12:55.87] ELLIE: Do you have any very positive memories you can recall from when you lived there?
[00:13:02.19] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, yeah. I had my friend-- my best friend was Dolores [INAUDIBLE]. My mother liked Ethel Smolovitz better, because she was Jewish. I was in love with Dick Brady.
[00:13:18.45] ELLIE: And what grade was this?
[00:13:20.61] RUTH ZWEIFLER: First grade. And I have no idea what happened to him or Ethel. Dolores went to Pembroke. And we did keep up for a long time.
[00:13:36.12] But as I said, again, it was a very-- you know, we were just all there together. Different religions-- Dolores was Catholic-- were adjectives. They were part of what you were like, but they were not you.
[00:13:57.08] ELLIE: Yeah. Were there any different languages spoken in your town or household? Like, did you really see any variety? No.
[00:14:05.15] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Nuh-uh.
[00:14:06.00] ELLIE: Yeah. One of the questions, which you've answered, but just to go over it again, how many people did you live with when you were growing up? And what were your relationships towards them? Like, how did you get along with your twin siblings and your parents?
[00:14:20.97] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I think I got along reasonably well with my parents. I think I liked my dad better, especially in retrospect. I get along much better with my sister and brother now than I did then.
[00:14:37.02] I mean, I was-- my mother was one of three sisters. My one aunt had no children. And my other aunt had just one son who was the same age as my twin brother and sister. So for the first four and a half, five years of my life, I was it in the maternal set of family. And then I got uprooted.
[00:15:03.99] ELLIE: Do you remember anything about that town? Did you ever go out to eat there with your family or do things in the town?
[00:15:10.86] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I don't remember anything like that.
[00:15:15.59] ELLIE: This is a little bit redundant, but what was your family like when you were a child? I guess, did you guys have the family dynamic and spend a lot of time together, maybe you have any family special nights where you had to just be with family that you can remember?
[00:15:31.55] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, we always ate dinner together. And we still do that in our home. We do that with our grandkids. And I understand that that's not really the way people eat and graze anymore. But yeah, we still have supper together.
[00:15:48.29] ELLIE: When you were a child, did you celebrate the Jewish holiday on Friday nights?
[00:15:51.04] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yes-- eh, not so much.
[00:15:55.48] ELLIE: But you lit the candles?
[00:15:56.93] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, with high holy days.
[00:15:59.99] ELLIE: Did you go to the congregation on the high holy days?
[00:16:03.32] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I did. I was confirmed.
[00:16:06.73] ELLIE: Were you bar or bat mitzvahed?
[00:16:08.66] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No, because that was an innovation from my time. Bar mitzvahs were traditional, but bat mitzvahs were somewhat more recent.
[00:16:25.28] ELLIE: Why? I had no idea about this. It's very interesting.
[00:16:28.25]
[00:16:30.23] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Girls were confirmed. And I don't know what the difference is. But that's my big memory of that time. And I think, again, one of the things that sort of set me on the path I'm on now was that in my confirmation class, the Sunday school teacher exhorting us to go to Palestine and settle the land. I think I told you this. And
[00:16:58.55] I raised my hand and said, don't people live there? And his response-- you know, this is when I was 12 so-- was, oh, the Arabs. They live in tents. The Jews made the desert bloom. And it just never sat right with me.
[00:17:20.02] ELLIE: When you were living in your first home, do you remember what sort of work your mom and dad did?
[00:17:25.12] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, as I said, my dad at that point was developing this chemical company which was really quite successful. And I worked there doing, my gosh, doing accounting and books when I was in early high school, which has never been my forte. But somehow or other, they survived that. And my mom was a homemaker and I think somewhat involved in PTL and school things, but not really that active. I mean, again, she married late.
[00:18:06.27] And I've never really got the chronology, because I think she was embarrassed, but maybe when she was 29. It was in those days, it should been 17 or 18 to really be successful. And I think she just never felt comfortable being a homemaker.
[00:18:29.18] But in fact, the year I went to college, I heard her talking on the phone with Ethel's mom. And Ethel had just gotten engaged-- or I guess with my grandmother, rather, telling her that Ethel had just gotten engaged. And I heard my mom say, I hope so too. It wasn't until we were 24 that we got married.
[00:18:59.51] ELLIE: So did you have a lot of friends that were doing things pretty early like marriage and having children?
[00:19:09.27] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Not really. I mean, Ethel was an outlier, really, on that.
[00:19:13.19] ELLIE: Yeah. Jumping back a little bit-- might not be the easiest to remember, but do you remember what a typical day was in your preschool years?
[00:19:24.96] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No.
[00:19:25.79] ELLIE: Me neither. What did you do for fun when you lived in your first house?
[00:19:34.63] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I spent a lot of time with Dolores. I don't really remember what we did. I don't remember. That was a long time ago.
[00:19:44.62] ELLIE: Yeah, you have a pretty good memory of the even kindergarten years. Did you do things-- were you more an indoor girl or an outdoor girl?
[00:20:01.20] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I walked a lot. I remember walking. And certainly when I was older, one of the things we did for fun was to-- this was when I lived in Bogota, which is not near the George Washington Bridge. But we would take the bus to Fort Lee and then walk over the bridge and back again.
[00:20:16.87] ELLIE: Oh, wow.
[00:20:17.60] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah.
[00:20:18.33] ELLIE: Just talking?
[00:20:19.40] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah.
[00:20:19.84] ELLIE: That's fun.
[00:20:20.66] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah.
[00:20:22.47] ELLIE: So when you were younger, did you have a favorite toy, game, book?
[00:20:31.00] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I think I loved Heidi. I had a dog named Dixie that my mother said I tortured to death. I don't really remember anything else. I did read a lot.
[00:20:49.96] ELLIE: Do you remember any books from your childhood that really stood out and maybe either changed the way you saw things after you were reading? Or just the way--
[00:21:01.90] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, as I said, I think Heidi was, the movie and the book, were enchanting to me. And I really liked that. I had a wonderful copy with lovely colored illustrations.
[00:21:14.77] ELLIE: I've actually never come into contact with that. Could you tell me a little bit about what Heidi is?
[00:21:19.90] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, OK. It's a story of a little Swiss girl who is orphaned and brought to live with her grandfather, who is a grumpy hermit in the Alps, and becomes friends with a boy who is a goatherd. And it just, you know, it's very bucolic and sweet. And Shirley Temple was in the movie. And Shirley Temple, of course, was big in my day.
[00:21:53.28] ELLIE: Yes. So were there any special days, events, or family traditions, again, that you remember from this, I would say like fifth grade, back?
[00:22:09.91] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, the high holy days, we would go to temple. And we actually celebrated Christmas, but without a Christmas tree, but really enjoyed that. I just liked getting presents. And my grandmother sewed. And I remember her making me a Pilgrim costume. And I think that must have been for Halloween. But I loved it.
[00:22:45.63] ELLIE: Do you remember which the favorite-- or which of the high holidays was your favorite? Shabbat-- I mean, not Shabbat, Passover, Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah?
[00:22:58.63] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Probably Passover, because it was more fun.
[00:23:05.58] ELLIE: So we're kind of going back and forth. But I mean, we like to get all the information.
[00:23:11.67] RUTH ZWEIFLER: OK.
[00:23:13.35] ELLIE: So did you go to preschool and kindergarten?
[00:23:17.10] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I don't think I went to preschool-- did go to kindergarten. And I remember getting in trouble because we were at different tables. And another table was doing something, maybe painting. I don't remember. But that, I thought, was interesting. And I went over to it. I was in trouble.
[00:23:43.87] ELLIE: If you could describe your elementary school experience regarding racial diversity and religious diversity, there was-- no?
[00:23:54.46] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No.
[00:23:55.71] ELLIE: There was not a lot of--
[00:23:56.63] RUTH ZWEIFLER: There certainly wasn't racial diversity. And very little-- again, in Bogota, I was the diverse.
[00:24:05.13] ELLIE: Did that mean anything to you at the time, that there was-- that you only saw people that were similar to you?
[00:24:12.54] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No. But somehow-- and I don't know why-- I did become concerned at an early age about what was happening racially in this. Both of those communities were White. But I remember once we went to visit cousins on Long Island. This was when I was probably in eighth grade.
[00:24:45.34] And we stopped at a restaurant for lunch. And it turned out to be a restaurant that was owned and the customers were all Black. And we sat down. And we ate. And we left. And afterwards my mother said, you know, we wouldn't have gone in there, but we thought you'd be curious if we left. And actually, I guess I felt a little uncomfortable too, but I wasn't about to say so.
[00:25:14.23] ELLIE: Did this passion for equality, and you realized that it was important to integrate both, did it continue into like high school? Did it blossom in high school?
[00:25:28.78] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah. Again, my high school was all White, I believe, pretty much, yeah.
[00:25:36.52] ELLIE: Where did you go to high school?
[00:25:37.54] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Bogota High School. And at Bryn Mawr, we would have long discussions about the fact that it was so White. So there was concern and talk. But as students, we really didn't have a lot of ability to affect that. So that has now changed, I think, quite a bit.
[00:26:01.47] ELLIE: What else do you remember about your high school experience?
[00:26:06.80] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, I was part of a group, the Seven Teens. I don't even-- do I remember all seven of us? I don't, probably. But you know, there was a girls' group. And it was strong. And we were very supportive of one another. And I don't really remember a lot. I was a reasonably good student, and took it seriously, and liked it. I loved English, so why did I major in science?
[00:26:48.91] ELLIE: Good question. Do you remember anything about what you did with the Seven Teens or by yourself, like, in high school on the weekends when you were not focusing on school?
[00:27:04.18] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, we would gather at each other's homes. And I mean, if you were lucky, you had a date. That would be better. And I mean, I remember-- in fact, I was invited to a movie by Pierre [INAUDIBLE], my first date.
[00:27:25.03] And my father was so upset. And he let me go because I had said yes, or whatever. And I remember walking home. And in fact, this would happen often, because we did-- nobody had cars. But getting off the bus and walking up the street to Larch Avenue, and I'd see my mother peeking out behind the curtain waiting for me to get home.
[00:27:52.39] ELLIE: So can you tell me a little bit more about high school, what dating was like back then? Because I'm sure it's very different than--
[00:27:58.15] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, we danced at lunchtime. And so being invited to dance was really neat.
[00:28:04.72] ELLIE: What do you mean you would dance?
[00:28:05.53] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, they had music on. And you could dance during--
[00:28:09.04] ELLIE: In your lunch room?
[00:28:09.64] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, after lunch. It was fun.
[00:28:14.03] ELLIE: As a?
[00:28:14.89] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Just regular dance dance, you know.
[00:28:17.82] ELLIE: So if you were invited, that was--
[00:28:19.00] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I mean, not ballet.
[00:28:21.13] ELLIE: If you were invited, that was kind of a big deal?
[00:28:22.90] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, for me, it was.
[00:28:24.88] ELLIE: Wow, that's really cool. So the dates were just going out to the movies?
[00:28:31.03] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah.
[00:28:34.38] ELLIE: Was it common for people to date in high school?
[00:28:37.78] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah. It was aspired to.
[00:28:44.39] ELLIE: Did any of the other Seven Teens have dates?
[00:28:48.77] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, they did. They did. And Beverly Eritt, who-- Beverly Quinn, who was not one of the Seven Teens but was a really good pianist and the mayor's daughter married the music teacher after high school. Yeah, I thought, wow.
[00:29:14.27] ELLIE: I'm curious that your Seven Teens group. Was that like-- how did that come about?
[00:29:23.03] RUTH ZWEIFLER: It was very informal. Bogota did not have sororities. Teaneck, the next town, High School did.
[00:29:35.78] ELLIE: What's a high school sorority?
[00:29:39.75] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I never was a part of one.
[00:29:41.59] ELLIE: Because college sororities, they live together.
[00:29:44.72] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, no, it was just, it's a clique. And they were frowned upon. And so it was just informal. They were informal groups and friendships.
[00:29:57.32] ELLIE: So just ate lunch together.
[00:29:58.39] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Just friendships.
[00:29:58.65] ELLIE: Having fun.
[00:29:59.00] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah. Talked about boys.
[00:30:04.34] ELLIE: Yeah. When you attended high school, did you play any sports or do any other extracurricular activities?
[00:30:14.19] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Probably at gym, rode a bike. I did play field hockey at college.
[00:30:19.99] ELLIE: Oh really, where?
[00:30:20.99] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, At Bryn Mawr.
[00:30:22.72] ELLIE: [INAUDIBLE].
[00:30:24.10] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, I love it, but I don't do it anymore.
[00:30:29.37] ELLIE: Did you do any clubs, or theater, or anything like that?
[00:30:33.51] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, they had Try Y, which was probably a Y service group. And I don't really remember a lot about that. And I don't really remember.
[00:30:49.97] ELLIE: Can you talk a little bit about the music of the time and the different genres?
[00:30:56.05] RUTH ZWEIFLER: "A Sleepy Lagoon," I loved it. It's very swoony kind of-- you know.
[00:31:04.76] ELLIE: Yeah. What was the most popular artist for the majority of teenagers?
[00:31:11.71] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, I think Glenn Miller was big. And oh, I can't remember. My freshman year at college, I went to the dance at Haverford. And they had-- oh, Duke Ellington. And that was big, especially because Haverford is this teeny tiny college. And it's a big orchestra.
[00:31:39.14] ELLIE: Does the music have any particular dances associated with it? Like today we have a lot of dance moves that go with specific songs.
[00:31:47.20] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I don't remember. And I was never a very good dancer. Although, I aspired to be.
[00:31:51.55] ELLIE: So you liked to dance?
[00:31:53.55] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I did. But I wasn't very good. Actually, when my mother told me when-- because I took piano lessons and started at what was called Turtle Bay Music Conservatory in New York when I was quite young. I just remember getting on the ferry and going over. And it was a really long production. And I rebelled. And later she told me that if I had continued, they were going to enroll me in a dance class, which I always thought was an absolute, what, just awful thing to have done to me.
[00:32:38.98] ELLIE: So can you tell me a little bit about the popular clothing or hair styles of your time in high school?
[00:32:44.86] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, well Bobby socks. And kilts were really--
[00:32:48.03] ELLIE: What's Bobby socks?
[00:32:50.17] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Socks.
[00:32:51.62] ELLIE: With any?
[00:32:52.03] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No, just socks, but Bobby socks. And loafers, penny loafers.
[00:32:57.22] ELLIE: With your kilt.
[00:32:58.42] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Hm?
[00:32:58.93] ELLIE: With your kilt?
[00:33:00.04] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Mhm. And sloppy Joe sweaters.
[00:33:04.03] ELLIE: I'm not familiar with that either.
[00:33:05.38] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Just big sweaters--
[00:33:06.63] ELLIE: Oh, yeah.
[00:33:08.14] RUTH ZWEIFLER: --Dickey collars.
[00:33:09.73] ELLIE: Yeah.
[00:33:11.90] RUTH ZWEIFLER: A little Peter Pan collar.
[00:33:13.27] ELLIE: Yeah. Did your school have a uniform or could you--
[00:33:17.68] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No.
[00:33:18.10] ELLIE: A dress code?
[00:33:19.38] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Hm?
[00:33:20.08] ELLIE: Did you have a dress code?
[00:33:21.77] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No.
[00:33:22.38] ELLIE: Really?
[00:33:23.56] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No. But I don't think anyone would think of wearing slacks, or, you know.
[00:33:28.39] ELLIE: Yeah, did you wear skirts every day?
[00:33:30.88] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:33.28] ELLIE: Was there any--
[00:33:34.12] RUTH ZWEIFLER: So I guess there was a dress code. But I mean, again, it was-- it didn't have to be explicit, because nobody would think of wearing pants as girls.
[00:33:44.12] ELLIE: What would happen if a girl wore pants during that?
[00:33:47.47] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I can't imagine. I can't imagine.
[00:33:50.75] ELLIE: Really? Not even one day a week?
[00:33:54.11] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Nuh-uh, never.
[00:33:56.83] ELLIE: My mom was telling me, when she was in high school, they could wear pants one day a week. So I was--
[00:34:02.12] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, see, it was coming.
[00:34:05.20] ELLIE: And the weekends, what did--
[00:34:08.28] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, well, you know, at camp and things, I mean, we had shorts, and slacks, and stuff. And probably in the summertime, I guess we could. I just don't remember-- but certainly not to school.
[00:34:23.04] ELLIE: Yeah. Do you remember any other fads or styles from this era that were like, maybe not even among teens, just among people that was just-- maybe a trendy saying or like a trendy thing that most people would go out and do or something like that?
[00:34:39.00] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I remember the first time I went for pizza. A friend of mine said, you know, let's-- and she said, it's a tomato pie. And we all went. And I'm expecting a pie with tomatoes or some. So that was really new. And that was in high school, so sometime between, what, '40-whatever and '47.
[00:35:09.02] ELLIE: Wow, that's very different.
[00:35:11.76] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah. Yeah, we-- that's our food now.
[00:35:15.03] ELLIE: Yeah, it's pretty normal. When you were your friends, did you ever go to the movies with them? Or did you go shopping?
[00:35:27.04] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh yeah. And there were certainly malls, but I don't really remember. Yeah, we would go to Hackensack. Yes, and I remember-- I forget how old I was. I remember shoplifting something from Woolworths, and going out. And the manager came out. And it straightened me forever. I mean, he didn't do-- he didn't do anything except take it.
[00:35:59.63] ELLIE: Very lucky.
[00:36:01.12] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah.
[00:36:06.66] ELLIE: So were there any slang terms, phrases, or words used that aren't common in used today, how we have some?
[00:36:15.57] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, I don't remember.
[00:36:20.73] ELLIE: What was a typical day for you like during high school and middle school, school day and weekend day?
[00:36:32.48] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, school, I would walk to school.
[00:36:35.30] ELLIE: Every day?
[00:36:35.90] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Every day.
[00:36:36.28] ELLIE: Even in the winter?
[00:36:36.94] RUTH ZWEIFLER: And walk home, in the winter, anytime, rain or shine. My mom didn't drive. My dad-- we had one car. My dad had it and was working. And you know, I remember when I was little playing stickball in the street, and you know, what, Red Rover, Red Rover, and things like that, so street games, and jump rope. I broke my arm.
[00:37:08.49] ELLIE: From jump rope?
[00:37:10.19] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No, I guess roller skating. Roller skating was also an activity-- in third grade. In high school, I spent a lot of time with my friends, whose names I can't remember, Ellie or Zelle. Oh my god, who all else was in that group? I have to look back and remember. Mary Ann, Margret.
[00:37:35.97] ELLIE: There we go. you have some names.
[00:37:37.22] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, four, three more-- I'll tell you next time.
[00:37:41.76] ELLIE: You have a really great memory. Even that many is very impressive. Besides the Jewish holidays, maybe just moving into high school, were there any special days, events, or family traditions that you remember? Any important birthdays, significant--
[00:38:03.85] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, I think we celebrated birthdays. Yeah, I remember an early one when, oh, my mom worked so hard. She made cream puff-- swans out of cream puffs.
[00:38:18.07] ELLIE: What age was this?
[00:38:19.36] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Hm?
[00:38:20.23] ELLIE: What age were you when she did this?
[00:38:21.52] RUTH ZWEIFLER: This was young. But you know, she really worked hard. And I thought it was-- you know, all I wanted was a birthday cake. And my sister and brother had to come. And they cried. So it was not my idea of an ideal party. But this was like when I was seven or eight.
[00:38:44.08] ELLIE: When you were in high school, was there-- maybe there wasn't ethnic diversity, but was there, like, socioeconomic background diversity? Like some money-wise?
[00:39:01.45] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Not really. I think we were all just kind of in the middle class sort of.
[00:39:09.46] ELLIE: Were there any people at your school that, maybe for their birthdays, they had bigger events that they invited-- no?
[00:39:20.74] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Nuh-uh.
[00:39:24.16] ELLIE: So friendship-wise, did you kind of stay with your Seven Teens? Or did you ever hang out with other people and find other people to hang out with you guys?
[00:39:31.75] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, I had friends from Teaneck.
[00:39:35.21] ELLIE: What's Teaneck?
[00:39:36.23] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Which is the next town-- that I had met at Sunday school. And we were friends for-- you know, again, close friends, talk on the phone all the time. Only one phone in the house, and get off the phone, you know, you're hogging it. But and boys, always boys.
[00:40:02.83] ELLIE: Did you ever hang out with the boys with your girlfriends? Or was that not--
[00:40:09.03] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Not terribly often. The boy I dated in high school, his best friend had a girlfriend. And we were not-- the girls were not particularly close. But you know, there was that kind of couples' relationship.
[00:40:34.87] ELLIE: Let' see. Did your family have any special sayings or expressions during this time or kind of inside jokes, things that only-- that was special just to you guys?
[00:40:45.34] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I don't think so.
[00:40:49.73] ELLIE: After you moved, were there any other significant changes in your family life during your school years?
[00:40:55.85] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No, not really.
[00:41:01.67] ELLIE: So besides the Jewish holidays, which holidays did your family celebrate? And did they create traditions and celebrations for maybe, like, Thanksgiving, or however you guys did Christmas?
[00:41:15.36]
[00:41:16.47] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Christmas was-- gifts would be at the fireplace in the morning. And the best one was when I got my blue Schwinn bicycle, which is totally unexpected and wonderful. And I mean, I guess I remember getting a Dy-Dee Doll for Christmas once and driving everybody crazy, feeding her, and changing the diapers all over the house, and going to my grandmother's and with the doll, and putting diapers all over the apartment there. And that was the big one.
[00:41:54.77] ELLIE: Thanksgiving, did you guys?
[00:41:56.49] RUTH ZWEIFLER: We did Thanksgiving. And I think we even probably did Easter.
[00:42:01.94] ELLIE: Oh, really?
[00:42:04.17] RUTH ZWEIFLER: You know, just as a spring dinner, whatever. And Passover was mostly at my grandmother's house.
[00:42:15.53] ELLIE: With your immediate family, or cousins and uncles?
[00:42:19.61] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, so just, this is my maternal grandmother. And so it was just one cousin. And it was not the larger family. My grandmother came from a very large family. But those huge family reunions, I don't recall happening.
[00:42:40.91] ELLIE: Yeah. I was going to ask you if you have any special food traditions?
[00:42:51.98] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Like eating?
[00:42:53.12] ELLIE: Yeah, like for example, your Friday-night dinners that you have currently, that, if you had anything like that back then, or like any special foods that your mom made, maybe your birthday dinner?
[00:43:09.22] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No. She used to make lemon meringue pie, which I certainly don't do, but I loved. And I used to make cheesecake. Now I have a cartoon in my room from The New Yorker from a while ago. It's two women sitting at a restaurant table. And the caption is, I can't have anything that's a food. And that's a real-- it drives me crazy. So I've sort of stopped cooking altogether at this point, because everybody can't eat something else.
[00:43:51.06] Spaghetti-- oh, excuse me, I guess when the children were young, we had neighbors. And Charlie was a little bit older than our son, John. And he would used to come over and question me about everything. And he said, what are you having for dinner? And I said, I'm having-- we're having spaghetti.
[00:44:16.99] And he said, spaghetti? Spaghetti? You always have spaghetti! Which is true. And he said, you know what we always have? And I said, what? He said, lamb chops, which we never had except when my father would come and buy them for us.
[00:44:30.72] ELLIE: Yeah. Do you ever remember your dad making you guys any meals?
[00:44:39.35] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No.
[00:44:39.91] ELLIE: Never?
[00:44:40.41] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Never.
[00:44:41.20] ELLIE: Breakfasts, did your mom make you-- did your mom make all of your meals, like, lunches, dinners, breakfasts?
[00:44:46.96] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah.
[00:44:47.53] ELLIE: Even on school days?
[00:44:49.56] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah.
[00:44:52.10] ELLIE: Do you remember when you were high school, elementary school, middle school, what your most ideal meal would have been? If your mom said, Ruth, you could have any dinner tonight, what would it be?
[00:45:05.59] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I don't remember.
[00:45:07.40] ELLIE: It's OK. Is there anything that your family ever went out to eat?
[00:45:14.02] RUTH ZWEIFLER: We did. We would go-- I mean, a big event would be to go to the Atlantic Seashore. And so dinners at the shore were very special. We also used to go on family road trips in the summer, which were a big deal.
[00:45:31.09] ELLIE: Yeah, talk more about those.
[00:45:33.52] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, we went to Canada once. We would usually go with my uncle and his family, which drove my mother crazy, because she thought they weren't as-- she thought she was better than they were. We went to Pennsylvania and the Amish country once.
[00:45:54.85] And we were in Montreal. I remember my dad buying a very beautiful coat. And he was so abstemious and careful. And it was just a very moving experience to see me-- to see him indulge and be so pleased.
[00:46:17.49] ELLIE: So those were really special times with your family?
[00:46:19.93] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah.
[00:46:22.14] ELLIE: Do you remember which one, your favorite family vacation was?
[00:46:27.67] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I probably liked the seashore, which we did go to Belmar and Asbury Park.
[00:46:33.13] ELLIE: What were the swimming outfits like?
[00:46:35.92] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, and also to-- what was it? Ellenwood-- Ellendale-- Ellenville, New York, we would go for a couple of weeks while my dad worked. And the kids and my mom would go. And those were very special.
[00:47:00.09] ELLIE: And it was just you and your mom?
[00:47:01.91] RUTH ZWEIFLER: In the country, but it was the country, and the swimming, and that.
[00:47:07.55] ELLIE: That sounds very fun. Was it, do you think, having-- was three kids a pretty average amount to have in a family at that time?
[00:47:27.09] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Two to three.
[00:47:29.59] ELLIE: So did you like having twins as siblings?
[00:47:34.59] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No. No, they detracted from me. It got better.
[00:47:46.53] ELLIE: And now where are they today?
[00:47:48.31] RUTH ZWEIFLER: My sister is in Florida. And my brother is in Delaware.
[00:47:51.02] ELLIE: Oh wow, very spread out.
[00:47:52.84] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah. And all of my family is very spread out, which it's like, should I go here? Should I go there? Should I go up there? So we don't go anywhere.
[00:48:09.47] ELLIE: So back to the food, are there any family stories connected to the preparations of special foods, like any more stories like the swans?
[00:48:21.81] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No. There were probably some nice-- my mom made really good roast chicken.
[00:48:27.99] ELLIE: Really?
[00:48:28.56] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah.
[00:48:29.40] ELLIE: What would she make that with? I'm curious.
[00:48:31.65] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, properly mashed potatoes or sweet potatoes. She made candied sweet potatoes. That was something I haven't done in a very long time.
[00:48:41.91] ELLIE: And also, when you were thinking back on your school years, what important social or historical events were taking place at the time? And how did they personally affect you or your family? And this one, you can take a longer to answer.
[00:48:55.50] RUTH ZWEIFLER: That's a longer answer, yeah. Well that was the war, World War II. And it always upset me. I used to pray. I used to pray for Hitler to be better. I just wanted it to stop. I didn't want anybody-- so the anti-war pacifist thing, I don't even know where it comes from, but I just always was very, very troubled by that.
[00:49:27.70] ELLIE: Can you talk more about if there is any specifics you remember?
[00:49:32.78] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I don't know, because I was young. I mean, nobody immediately-- well, yes. That's not true. My grandmother's sister had two boys, Jackie and Marty, who were really the flowers of-- they were a little bit older than me.
[00:49:53.13] And Jackie was the one who was expected to just be wonderful. And he was killed in the Battle of the Bulge. And I remember, you know, my Aunt never recovered. And I remember some of my, the female relatives talking once about the fact that Gene hadn't gotten over it. And I'd think, how would you? How would you?
[00:50:23.46] So there was that. And I've lost touch with his younger brother, Marty, although we had been in sort of touch for a while. But my aversion to the war preceded that. And I don't know where it came from.
[00:50:50.26] ELLIE: Do you remember your parents, how they reacted towards everything that was going on during this time?
[00:50:56.53] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I don't think anybody liked it. I don't know.
[00:51:01.87] ELLIE: Did they ever bring it up in school, what was kind of going on around you, or like other [INAUDIBLE]?
[00:51:11.91] RUTH ZWEIFLER: You know, I don't remember.
[00:51:17.76] ELLIE: And was there anything-- like for us, for instance, 9/11 happened when we were one years old, completely unexpected and tragic. Was there any events you can remember really that when you were maybe in high school, elementary, or middle that just kind of blew everyone away?
[00:51:38.25] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, I remember being thrilled when the war was over and just being so excited, so excited. Also, some of us would volunteer at the movies to collect money for the Red Cross at intermission. And we wore white sort of headbands.
[00:52:04.00] And I always-- it felt very saintly. But again, we were a little young for being actually engaged. I didn't, except for my older cousins, I didn't know people in the military.
[00:52:30.99] ELLIE: Was it normal for high school kids to want to get involved in your community and try to raise awareness?
[00:52:40.47] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, I think so. As I said, there was the Try Y. And I don't remember much about it, except it was supposed to be a service club, and again, the volunteering to collect money. So you know, it was hardly a mission, but it was something you did do.
[00:53:03.18] ELLIE: Yeah. Is there any-- for example, when the war was over, do you remember what was happening that day in your town and, like, how everyone was reacting?
[00:53:18.81] RUTH ZWEIFLER: just--
[00:53:19.10] ELLIE: As a community?
[00:53:19.83] RUTH ZWEIFLER: --joy, joy, joy. We were not in New York carousing. We were-- this is '45, so it was the end of my sophomore year.
[00:53:32.51] ELLIE: Oh, was there anything, significant moments you remember from your junior or senior year that--
[00:53:43.35] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Nuh-uh, not really.
[00:53:46.23] ELLIE: Well, that's all very interesting and good. And we have many more questions to ask you. But we also have two more interviews for that.
[00:53:55.55] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, OK.
[00:53:56.21] ELLIE: And so I think today, we're good. You did very well.
[00:54:01.14] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Did I? Would you like to grade me?
[00:54:03.37] ELLIE: Yeah, I give you an A-plus.
[00:54:04.96] RUTH ZWEIFLER: All right. Can I have it in writing? So I think if you guys are good, then we're good for today.
[00:54:16.33] SPEAKER 1: We are rolling.
[00:54:18.10] ELLIE: OK, so we wanted to share your story as one of inspiration to all others about how you rose above prejudice and set an example for, not only your children, but anyone to fight against social injustice, more specifically how race factors into the type of education one receives. As a mother and religious woman, you've had many stories to tell about what difficulties and changes you've observed and what changes you've made yourself. We ask you to tell the story of what it was like to experience this firsthand and how you overcame these struggles.
[00:54:45.64] The questions we ask at first may seem familiar ones we've previously asked, but that's to help us have a starting point to your story. Thank you for your patience and presence. OK, so the first questions I'm going to ask about your earlier life. Where and when were you born?
[00:55:01.71] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I was born in-- well, I was actually born in a hospital in New York City. But my parents' home was Palisades, New Jersey. And that was on September 26, 1929. I realize, by the way, when I think about the Vietnam War and things like that, that it's like the Civil War for us, for you guys, right? I mean, this is all-- we're old.
[00:55:31.09] ELLIE: Where specifically did you spend your childhood years? Did you stay in one place? Or did you move around?
[00:55:36.85] RUTH ZWEIFLER: We moved when I was in the third grade to Bogota, New Jersey. And that's where I lived until I went to college and then got married.
[00:55:47.59] ELLIE: Do you think that your move impacted you in any way growing up? And if so, how did it impact you?
[00:55:53.47] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, I think I said before when we moved to Bogota, we were one of two Jewish families in town. And suddenly being Jewish was a noun instead of an adjective and just something that was part of what various people in our community shared. So that was sort of interesting. And I think that sense of other has kind of followed me through.
[00:56:25.30] Although, I was not discriminated against. I mean, I think probably there was some implication that I was an outsider. And I really wasn't. I had a lot of really very good friends that I still communicate with. But it was just that impact that suddenly there was something different.
[00:56:52.85] ELLIE: Can you share your fondest memory of your childhood and youth ages?
[00:56:57.63] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Nuh-uh.
[00:56:58.57] ELLIE: It's OK. Have your parents shaped or helped push you to become the activist you are today? And how?
[00:57:19.78] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I think-- oh OK, I guess I did tell you. Not my mom, but my dad, when a Black family moved down the street from us in Bogota, and the house was burned down, and he was just suddenly felt so-- they just wanted a home. But it took him to have had-- to see someone having an analogous experience to his to find that recognition.
[00:57:56.81] ELLIE: And then that influenced you to start taking charge?
[00:58:00.41] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, that was actually after we had-- I had already grown up. But so I don't really remember things from my youth.
[00:58:12.38] ELLIE: What was going on in the world as you were growing up?
[00:58:15.67] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, a war, several. Have we ever not, as a peace-loving nation? And of course, the Civil Rights Movement, which was really very engaging, and just something that I really wanted to be a part of.
[00:58:40.78] ELLIE: Would you say that when you were growing up, your parents informed you on what was going on or that they tried to shelter you from all the bad things?
[00:58:48.46] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No, I don't think either, really.
[00:58:50.50] ELLIE: Just kind of [INAUDIBLE]?
[00:58:51.40] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah.
[00:58:53.71] ELLIE: As a child, did you observe problems in society that you are working to resolve today? I know we've already answered this, just elaborate.
[00:59:01.42] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, I don't really. We lived in a very kind of homogeneous neighborhood.
[00:59:13.04] ELLIE: Looking back, was there ever a defining moment in your life that made you the activist you are today, similar to the house burning?
[00:59:25.54] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I don't know. I had dabbled with it a little bit in college. My sympathies were there, but it wasn't really-- I think maybe when we were in Japan in the service when I was suddenly thrust into a very stratified society, and one that was highly prejudiced against the host country.
[01:00:09.08] ELLIE: What are your broad thoughts on racism in the past compared to what you seen today, either specific to you or what you've seen in general?
[01:00:21.98] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, I guess it's more abstract now in a way. I mean, what I see with my Black grandchildren is more of an effort on the part of schools to be responsive and embracing. What I see in our society as a whole, I find disgusting and appalling, and that it's maybe switched more maybe because it's more socially acceptable to economic prejudice and inequality. And I find it shameful.
[01:01:02.67] ELLIE: Do you find that there has been a major change from the time you were growing up to now? Or do you see that people kind of still treat other people the same even despite the years that have passed?
[01:01:15.96] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well again, I think just judging from the way I see the children's experiences in school that I think are more welcoming and open and not so judgmental, I still think that that whole philosophy of the Talented Tenth and really encouraging--
[01:01:44.70] ELLIE: What's the Talented Tenth?
[01:01:45.50] RUTH ZWEIFLER: The Talented Tenth was WEB Du Bois and actually liberal New Englanders saying, we should really encourage the best tenth percent of the Black race and then they would sort of take care of the others. But you know, it was focused on that. And I think there is still a little bit of that. But we can congratulate ourselves because we can find a lot of successful examples. We then look with dismay at the turbulence in the inner cities and whatever. So I think that we don't have a sense of really wanting to help everybody.
[01:02:37.66] ELLIE: Yeah, so this next set of questions I'm going to ask you will pertain more to your activism in the past and present. So you can just be as detailed as you want. So this is probably hard for you to answer, but what is your proudest achievement?
[01:02:55.91] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, I guess student-- the Student Advocacy Center.
[01:02:59.95] ELLIE: You can just talk a lot about that, because-- like, just explain
[01:03:03.26] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Still--
[01:03:03.58] ELLIE: --all of it.
[01:03:03.98] RUTH ZWEIFLER: --goes. OK, you don't want me to talk about it now?
[01:03:06.63] ELLIE: No, you can explain the whole Student Advocacy Center right now. Just go for it.
[01:03:11.00] RUTH ZWEIFLER: All right, after we came back from Nashville in '68, we found that Angel School was now integrated. And there were little Black children in this lovely college-populated school. And we got involved with them. And just watching over the years that cohort of children and the struggles they had, it kept me involved.
[01:03:44.50] And then leaping forward-- and I guess it was in 1975. Oh, and I guess I was also involved with a disabilities group that was sponsored by the schools and trying to, again, integrate, and be sure that kids with disabilities were being treated fairly and well. And so in late '75, we just called up a lot of people and said, you know, this is something-- there is a problem here. And what can we do?
[01:04:21.86] And finally, first out of my house, and then I think in the upper regions of St. Andrews, and you know, around to various churches, and just traveling around with a small group, began developing a cadre of advocates to go with families and children when they were having difficulty, because I found that parents were really intimidated when they went to school meetings, that they weren't heard, they were as dismissed as the kids, and that having somebody else there to be sure that they were heard. The challenge is not to take over and do for, but to really amplify the voice of the kids' perception and the families' perception and ask for respect for them. And actually the logo now for the Student Center is a kid with a megaphone.
[01:05:42.32] ELLIE: What does the SAC do now?
[01:05:44.54] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, it does the same thing. We've never been well funded. I mean, always when we talked about the need to recognize children, and be able to help them, and whatever, basically the response often was, we didn't mean that one. You know, we can agree with you that everybody should be treated well, but we didn't mean him. So it was trying to overcome that sense that there were some kids that could be dismissed.
[01:06:28.09] I contrast what the Student Advocacy Center does and what Girls Group does, which I think is great, but they work with those kids who are already very close if not already on the road to success. We work with the kids who are in trouble, and are trouble, and try to say, you know, you've got to listen, as well as talk to them. And so that's not appealing.
[01:07:04.19] And I think the need is huge. The support is not so huge. It doesn't make people feel, but it makes them nervous a lot of times. So anyway, the actual advocacy work is now in Washtenaw County, Jackson County, and Oakland County, but-- or rather, Wayne County. But obviously, there is a statewide need. And there is more need than they can even meet.
[01:07:40.25] ELLIE: So when and why did you step down from your kind of major role in that?
[01:07:44.87] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I can't remember. I think it was '98, was it? I mean, time flies when you're having fun. Or '04-- maybe it was 2004. That sounds more like it.
[01:07:57.83] ELLIE: Why did you?
[01:07:59.39] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, because it was time. It was time. But I tell everybody, don't retire. I mean, that's a lesson for you guys. Don't do it. It's so-- you know, you have all this kind of time to fill up. And then when there is something to do, there are 10 things to do all at once. It's crazy-making.
[01:08:21.86] ELLIE: So why would you say education is so important to you, personally?
[01:08:28.22] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, because I think it's interesting to learn about the world. I'm not sure it's the only path to learning. And I don't know. I mean, again, I think we dismiss-- there is an arrogance, too, that comes with education.
[01:08:51.01] And I think we're fine to get now as we see the turbulence with the White working class, as well as the various ethnic groups. wisdom. Doesn't necessarily come from books, or kindness. But it does open up other ideas. So I mean, I just think it's a luxury, in a way.
[01:09:19.78] ELLIE: Would you say that your education throughout your whole life has been a positive one?
[01:09:24.72] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah. I think so. I think so.
[01:09:27.70] ELLIE: How, in general and personally, do you think education integrates into social activism?
[01:09:39.58] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well again, I guess if it's what I would think of as a good education, it sort of broadens horizons and gives you an awareness of what the issues are and where there might be opportunities for change. I don't think we've been very successful, so I may be very, very wrong.
[01:10:00.31] ELLIE: What hardships have you specifically faced, either as a young person currently or in the religious community?
[01:10:10.49] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I've been very blessed, I think.
[01:10:15.24] ELLIE: Has your family or parents had any defining moments that you recall that maybe were talked about as a family or heavily looked down upon?
[01:10:27.57] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well I mean, I know when I was little that there was tremendous concern about money. Then my dad went through several, as somebody who only went through eighth grade-- he did spend time in the Navy, although we never talked about it, but we have a lovely picture of him. He was on Wall Street. He was a stockbroker for a while and a part of the legend.
[01:11:00.72] And of course, I never asked my parents anything. You should do that. I'm thinking of writing to my kids and saying, I feel guilty about my not being loving enough or interested enough in my parents until-- and wanting to tell them that they've been just fine to me.
[01:11:19.80] But anyway, so he was a stock broker. How did he get on Wall Street? I don't know. But that's where he met my mom. And then he had a chemical manufacturing business with his brother, and was a cellist. And you know, so I don't know how all that happened.
[01:11:44.94] ELLIE: Same with me. Do you have any specific movements, protests, or actions that you can recall and tell us about the past? [INAUDIBLE]
[01:12:02.13] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I guess the first one was probably the most important, which was just shortly after I began going to Quaker meeting. They announced that there was going to be a vigil in Washington. And I think I've told you this story too. But my mother was always the-- her biggest lesson was never make a spectacle of yourself.
[01:12:32.20] And so here was this announcement about going to Washington and standing on a street corner. And I took the announcement home, and hid it, and would read it. And then I went. And it really did not destroy me. And after that, it was sort of a piece of cake.
[01:12:56.79] ELLIE: So you've mentioned before, you've been arrested. Can you tell that story?
[01:13:02.04] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, well that was, again, I-- when was that? It was when John was 6, so early, maybe '61, something like that. And there was a lot of agitation in Ann Arbor about open housing, because at that time, Black folks could live on Gott Street, and Minor, and that little section of town. And there was a lot of clamor for an open housing ordinance.
[01:13:38.23] And after one of the hearings at City Hall, several of us sat in. And I remember my neighbor Walter Spink was going to sit in too and be arrested. And at the last minute, he whooped out of here.
[01:13:57.93] So a woman who is not really from Ann Arbor but who had been working on the issues and I were the two who were arrested. And I remember going to court. Judge Elden with the municipal judge. And saying that he's-- we were disregarding property and not taking care of it. And all I kept thinking was, people were important. And really, we hadn't destroyed anything, anyway.
[01:14:35.54] And then he gave us a sentence of $25 or five days in jail. And Anna and I chose jail. And we didn't have to go immediately. I forget when we had to report. But I went home. And then, again, were these responses from, particularly the older kids, John, assuring me that his friend, David's dad, who is a lawyer, would get me out of it, and Lizzie saying, oh mommy, you won't know what to do-- so typical of both of them. And I don't even remember what Andy was doing besides being mortified, and tearing his hair out, and just kind of trying to slink along hospital corridors and not be noticed, and also probably being very mad at me.
[01:15:30.21] ELLIE: So did you end up going to jail?
[01:15:31.95] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Mhm.
[01:15:32.85] ELLIE: And what was it like?
[01:15:35.10] RUTH ZWEIFLER: The food was all sweet. I wouldn't sign the permission for them to read my mail. I didn't expect to have any. But I didn't think they should do that. And so they wouldn't give me my shoes back.
[01:15:50.60] It was boring. The women who were in there with me were-- they shouldn't have been there. I mean, it was not useful, I don't think, for them. We didn't see the men, but we heard through the day and night somebody, really, just how in solitary confinement.
[01:16:21.20] And when I left at the end of five days, a friend had come to try to visit. And as we were leaving, she said, did you get your mail? And I said, no, I didn't know I had any, and went back. And the mail was all opened.
[01:16:44.81] And I said, you know you didn't let me have my shoes because I told you you couldn't open it. I'm not going to take it-- and went to ACLU and complained. And at that point, prison stuff was not chic, whatever. And they didn't think there was anything they could do.
[01:17:12.46] So I went back to get the mail. And it all said on the envelope, "opened in error." So anyway, that sort of just ended it. But you know, it was an experience.
[01:17:27.80] ELLIE: Yeah. What are common misconceptions that you think other people have about those who participate in protests or movements?
[01:17:38.80] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, that they're disruptors, or not being obedient, or lawful. I mean, I keep thinking, you know, we say we are a nation of laws and not of men. And I want to change that. We are a nation of laws made by men, interpreted by men, and implemented by men. And it's all very, very sort of personal. It doesn't come from God.
[01:18:09.85] ELLIE: When you started becoming active in the community, did a lot of your friends or family members question you or tell you you shouldn't?
[01:18:22.27] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Only my family. You know, you select your companions.
[01:18:28.66] ELLIE: Did you have lots of friends that you'd say participated with you?
[01:18:34.37] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I think in various-- since you're in the heyday of when everybody was doing it, everybody was doing it.
[01:18:41.96] ELLIE: What qualities do you possess that you think has helped you in this community? And what does it take to be a social justice warrior like yourself?
[01:18:50.66] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, I can't even answer that.
[01:18:55.44] ELLIE: Well, do you think maybe it's something about your persistence?
[01:19:01.26] RUTH ZWEIFLER: My what?
[01:19:01.77] ELLIE: Persistence.
[01:19:03.70] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Maybe, yeah, maybe single mindedness. Or I mean, I just can't imagine doing otherwise. I really--
[01:19:18.21] ELLIE: What were the first steps or actions that you took to accomplish what you felt needed to be changed in the communities that you are in, not just Ann Arbor?
[01:19:39.55] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I don't know. this is from early days, you mean?
[01:19:43.66] ELLIE: Yeah, I mean, whenever.
[01:19:46.16] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well you know, probably my main boyfriend in high school was Catholic. And so there was lots of discussion about inter-religious things that never made sense to me. And that probably, that was probably very instrumental in how I developed.
[01:20:15.85] ELLIE: So can you explain now your religious upbringing? And then that, OK, that, we'll stop there. And then I'll ask you another question.
[01:20:24.01] RUTH ZWEIFLER: OK, well I was-- we were a Jewish family. We observed Jewish holidays. We went to temple on the high holy days. As I said, I mostly had the sense in Sunday school of wanting to say, I disagree. So, well, that was always problematic.
[01:20:49.49] ELLIE: Did you ever?
[01:20:51.36] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Disagree?
[01:20:52.35] ELLIE: Speak out?
[01:20:54.83] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, as I said, I think the one seminal incident that I remember and that I think I've told you about was in my confirmation class when my Sunday school teacher said we had to go to Palestine, because it was Palestine then, and settle the land. And I said, don't people live there? And he said, eh, the Arabs, they live in tents. The Jews made the desert bloom.
[01:21:30.15] And well, you know, that was a long time ago. And I thin kit was unforgettable and unforgivable. And so I'm still strongly anti-Zionist, actually.
[01:21:44.25] And in fact, as we speak, our Palestinian daughter and her baby are at the house. Oh, about six years ago, we didn't formally adopt, but sort of embraced a young woman from Gaza who was a Fulbright scholar at Eastern, and have maintained that relationship. She is now married to a colleague of hers who is from Senegal.
[01:22:16.83] And they have this wonderful little habiba. And she is finishing her PhD and is staying at the house. And I've been very involved in Palestine rights issues.
[01:22:33.95] ELLIE: So now can you explain what a Quaker is and then how you got involved in your-- if you're still involved?
[01:22:42.41] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yes. Well, I went to Bryn Mawr, which is, it sort of thinks of itself as a Quaker college, but it isn't. But Haverford, which is right next door, is. And I went to meeting a few times then. It made sense to me. It's very non-didactic, or at least not obviously so.
[01:23:09.73] So it's probably more subtle-- went to meeting when I was in Boston, again, never regularly. And then when we came here, the meeting house was right around the corner. And I did seek it out. And I sat in a corner of the room and never introduced myself for weeks. But it just made sense to me.
[01:23:42.93] ELLIE: What would you define a Quaker as?
[01:23:45.24] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I think as someone-- well, their main tenant is seeking that of God in everyone. And I take that literally. And I think they do, Quakers do. And it's an aggressively peace-oriented religion. They've not been very successful. But I think that's a very--
[01:24:12.96] SPEAKER 2: Attention all students, 11th graders have received a call--
[01:24:18.09] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Action Group, PI, which has been very active in kind of promoting Palestinian issues.
[01:24:25.87] ELLIE: You should talk about that.
[01:24:27.52] RUTH ZWEIFLER: And I don't know that we're doing that much besides talking, but we're talking a lot, and certainly brought the meeting around to a lot of the issues. There is a large network around the country of small groups, Quaker and not, that are supportive of Palestinian rights, I think.
[01:24:53.06] ELLIE: Is that affiliated with the group that protests outside the temple?
[01:24:58.44] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No, but I-- I have never done that only because, although it's an inter-religious group, I feel as though the primary movers were people who identified themselves as Jews. And that because I-- I don't deny it, but because I don't, not support, but I'm not a part of that, that it didn't feel comfortable to me. So I have not been a part of that group.
[01:25:39.49] ELLIE: So have you ever been a part of the group that uses anything like aggression to sway people?
[01:25:48.67] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No. Well, what-- I guess Zionists would consider what we do aggressive. Physically aggressive, you mean? No.
[01:26:02.27] ELLIE: With the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, do you-- how do you inform people about it from your groups?
[01:26:11.63] RUTH ZWEIFLER: We're very noisy in meeting, silent meeting. But we've been very evident in the meeting. I'm suddenly thinking, what have we done, anyway? I don't know. That's been part of it. I'll have to go back. And I'm not sure. I can think of-- success, I don't think so. But we do go and visit representatives and try to express a point of view about being supportive and being concerned about the military support of Israel. And yet nothing very dramatic-- and certainly, we haven't saved the world.
[01:27:00.33] ELLIE: Do you feel like the activism-related activities you participate in are similar like the SAC and the--
[01:27:10.24] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah, I think it's all part of-- again, I think we have to be ready to list here and listen to everybody. And that isn't easy, but I think that's what we should be practicing instead of being so expert at imposing our will.
[01:27:35.29] ELLIE: So this is kind of a broad question, but what are your broad thoughts on racism currently, either specific to you or for what you've seen, in general?
[01:27:45.62] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, I think it's getting worse and worse right now. And should we mention our president? I don't know whether putting all the ugliness out for people to see may be at some point salutary, but I can't see it. I think we're in a-- you know, we keep having these great swings. And I think right now it feels to me like Germany.
[01:28:24.22] And I read a series of books. And I may have told you about this. And I can't even remember the author. This is an English guy writing about an Englishman who is supposed to be a journalist and a spy in Germany in the '30s.
[01:28:39.52] And it just goes through kind of the quotidian life of being in Germany. He's got a German girlfriend who is a perfectly nice person. And they know some Jewish people. And some of them are having problems. And some of them will go away, and whatever. But it's all very everyday.
[01:29:00.26] And I keep thinking that we're the good Americans. And I don't know. I don't know how you or what to do to make it different. I don't think we're in a good place, not nationally and not internationally.
[01:29:14.21] ELLIE: Have you seen any forms of racism with your grandchildren?
[01:29:26.49] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Not really, not really. And that's nice. But that's certainly-- I think that they have been protected, in a way. I think the Ann Arbor schools have been more open and supportive.
[01:29:52.31] And again, a while ago, Azaria, who is in first grade at Angel, came home. She comes over to our house after school. And her teacher accompanied her very upset, because she's in a small reading group. And by the way, she has this enormous vocabulary that's amazing, but she is not reading fluently, so she's in a special reading group with a couple of other kids.
[01:30:26.42] And in this group, as they were working, one of the little boys said-- made some kind of a disparaging remark about her not being bright. Of course, he's sitting right next to her and is equally having trouble. But the teacher was so upset. And I really appreciated that-- and the principal, and you know, they really, really were.
[01:30:54.68] And we talked about it. And my concern was that-- and I don't know what she did about the little boy, except that she was going to talk to his parents. But I said, you know, don't-- talk to him, but don't criticize him. I think he's trying to figure out things that he's heard. So there is probably stuff going on maybe at home, probably at school that I've not been aware of, but certainly this kid has heard. And then Azaria, Azaria just, she flies everywhere. She's irrepressible-- but the fact that it's there, it's in the air.
[01:31:47.01] ELLIE: So for this next group of questions-- it's, well, just a few-- but I'm going to focus on your words of wisdom. As a mother, what lesson or example do you want to set for your children when it comes to social climate and activism?
[01:32:04.63] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, that they would be aware, and embracing of, and understanding of every one. And again, I think I'm probably repeating a lot, but I had this very-- it made a huge impression on me, that little cartoon clip in Waiting for Superman, which is a movie I tell everybody not to see, because it promotes charter schools. But there is a cartoon segment in there of three kids in school. And the teacher takes the tops of their heads off. And she pours something in two heads. And it doesn't go in the third head.
[01:32:46.44] And I don't even know what the point was, but I was ready to get up in the movie theater and say, no, that there was something in all of those heads. And so I think one of the things that really I think a lot about now is teaching, and learning, and that we talk about-- we think of teaching as stuffing in, when education means to pull out, and that we really have to find ways to really encourage and embrace what children bring, what their insights are, what their worries are, not to silence them because they use the wrong words, but to try to hear what they're really asking about and to help them respond.
[01:33:38.27] ELLIE: Definitely. So where do you find the motivation to continue fighting for the issues that matter to you? Many people feel that it's just so easy to give up if you're not seeing results. So what has made you continue?
[01:33:52.48] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Too stupid to stop, work in the garden. Just, I mean, there is a desire to run. It's hard. I know I keep, because I really-- you know, I think I can run away, but there are all these kids who can't.
[01:34:10.95] ELLIE: Yeah, that's a very good point. What do you want-- this is a hard question. What do you want from the future? What changes do you want to see next?
[01:34:23.70] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh well, I would like peace.
[01:34:26.94] ELLIE: Realistically and then if you could have anything.
[01:34:30.57] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Realistically, oh my god, that Trump will be impeached tomorrow, that we find a way to talk with one another. I mean, it isn't realistic. I don't know. That spring comes and flowers come up, and that the deer come back, because I think I killed my deer.
[01:34:54.31] ELLIE: What?
[01:34:55.48] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I'm just very upset about that. And to learn how to live-- I think it's George Fox talks about walking cheerfully over the Earth, I think, or the world, seeking that of God in everyone. And I would change cheerfully to lightly, that we need to kind of look at our whole world and take care of it, which we don't do.
[01:35:36.88] ELLIE: And then if you could have anything in the world, like, not realistically, what would it be?
[01:35:44.28] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, that. I mean, my personal, except-- oh, I guess I would like the house clean. We are divesting. The basement has been cleaned out. I'd like to paint, have walls painted.
[01:36:08.89] We talk-- I always said our legacy to the kids will be, you get to clean the house. Just to stay in the house, and to have the kids, and as-- oh, I saying, I was going to write to my kids and say that I do feel guilty about my family, and that I haven't done enough, and that they should know that they've done more than enough, and that we are very grateful to them. And they should not be guilty ever.
[01:36:42.98] ELLIE: And you can envision what world peace would look like?
[01:36:47.26] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, I think it would be work, but it would be nice. I think it's nicer to be kind. And I think people feel better when they're being positive. I just don't think it even feels good to be angry and mean. Not that I'm not. I can be. I can be. But it isn't that nice.
[01:37:15.71] ELLIE: What moments in life are you thankful for? You can say more than one.
[01:37:19.73] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well certainly, I mean, we're so blessed with family, and very hopeful about all the young people I see. I think they're really wonderful. So it's up to you. I give it to you.
[01:37:37.79] ELLIE: Branching off that you're thankful for the young people, what words of wisdom do you have for those in your field, listen to your story, or just people that will grow up to hopefully be like you?
[01:37:51.66] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I don't know. Nothing comes to mind.
[01:38:01.62] ELLIE: Think for a minute more.
[01:38:03.42] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Hm?
[01:38:04.40] ELLIE: Let's think. I think that you would have some really good advice.
[01:38:11.42] RUTH ZWEIFLER: I think just to be aware, probably to listen to what people are saying, what the subtext is, because I think, often, the superficial language is that there is an underground that's meaningful, and important, and that has to be paid attention to. So maybe Arthur Miller's attention must be paid, is a good mantra.
[01:38:50.76] ELLIE: Yeah. Do you have a favorite quote, or saying, or poem that you would like to share?
[01:38:58.30] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Ay, yi, yi. That's not fair. Not really. I mean, I'm sure I do. Can I tell you later?
[01:39:08.89] ELLIE: Yeah, definitely. And is there anything else that you would like to say while you have the camera running?
[01:39:16.94] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No, I don't. I'll send you-- I did a little haiku that maybe-- children are the hearts we wear outside our bodies where no rib cage guards. So that's sort of--
[01:39:36.84] ELLIE: So you like poetry? You like writing poetry?
[01:39:38.40] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Yeah. That sort of is where I am.
[01:39:43.21] ELLIE: Yeah, so what do you do in your, like, day-to-day life now?
[01:39:47.10] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, I said, don't retire, because I spend a lot of time doing nothing or playing solitaire. And then I do, when I have something to do, it's a lot. We spend a lot of time with the [INAUDIBLE] grandkids, because they are going to Ann Arbor schools.
[01:40:09.13] And so Azaria spends time in the morning with us. And we pick up Iana from Huron. And their mom picks them up at the end of the day. I have a couple-- you know, very few points in the week. And it makes it very disorienting. But I do go to a writing group now on Thursday afternoons for old people, of which I'm one of the oldest.
[01:40:43.92] ELLIE: What do you write about?
[01:40:46.19] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, right now, I'm writing a history of the house. And so far, we just-- I just got in. I mean, I wrote about finding it, about the outside, about our neighbors. Now I'm writing things in the house. Next will come, beginning in 1960 with-- we have had so many people--
[01:41:07.41] ELLIE: Can you give a brief family tree of how many grandkids you have and how many kids you have?
[01:41:14.12] RUTH ZWEIFLER: All right.
[01:41:14.71] ELLIE: So there is you and Andrew.
[01:41:15.97] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Hm? I'll start with John.
[01:41:17.31] ELLIE: Start with you and Andrew.
[01:41:18.88] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Our oldest?
[01:41:19.89] ELLIE: No, start with you and Andrew.
[01:41:21.52] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Start with what?
[01:41:22.49] ELLIE: Oh, I guess that doesn't make sense.
[01:41:23.38] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Wait, what'd do you say?
[01:41:24.46] ELLIE: You and Andrew.
[01:41:25.45] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Oh, OK, me and Andrew, all right, and then we had John in 1955 in New York. We had Elizabeth in 1956 in Japan. We had Mark in '58 in New York-- no, no, no, no, in Ann Arbor in one house, and Ran in '59 in another rental house in Ann Arbor, and Natania in '61 in 1706 South Yew, which is where we are now.
[01:42:09.83] And then I said we have all these ancillary people, but keeping them separate, we then had-- Yolanda came to us in 1975 with her birth mom. And her birth mom, Tanya-- and she stayed with us for a while. And then Tanya left to grow up, because she was very, very young. And Yolanda stayed.
[01:42:39.91] And when she was 18, she was told, we raised her on a what was it called, permanent-- the name always escapes me. Anyway, on a legal document that said we had power of attorney, that she no longer qualified as part of the family. So at 18, we adopted her formally. And we went to our friend Judge Nancy Francis with Andy and me with her birth mother, Tanya, her paternal grandmother, and one of her teachers who came up with a balloon thing, it's a girl, and formally adopted her. So that's the kids.
[01:43:43.04] Then comes John's-- John has a very checkered life. But he has six children now. He's had several partners.
[01:43:57.47] So we have Brianna, who is 30. And she had-- she really has an interesting life, because she was very, very troubled as an adolescent. She was really very troubled, I think, from jump street. I remember flying with her to California. And she screamed the whole time. I thought they were going to put us out of the plane.
[01:44:22.25] But she pulled herself together in her late teens, early 20s. She's graduated from Berkeley. And she is now at UC Davis, and is studying law, and will be a criminal justice poverty attorney.
[01:44:42.80] ELLIE: Awesome.
[01:44:43.72] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Amazing, amazing-- I mean, and in fact, just to digress, my college roommate's first child also had a very difficult time. These are drugs and all kinds of really bad stuff from the '60s. And she, too, is now doing very well. And I think that having support, having resources behind you makes a difference.
[01:45:12.31] Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, kid, and take care of yourself, I think is really asking a lot of anybody. And I don't think anyone makes it alone. But that's a lesson, that the self-reliance-- judgment is, I think, very damaging. Nobody makes it alone ever.
[01:45:37.38] So anyway, so he has Brianna. And then Sean, who graduated-- he was the nature boy and just came back from traveling around Africa, and Madagascar, and the Middle East. And he's back in California. And he's into politics. So who knows?
[01:46:02.16] Then he has-- we have Troy, who is I think really intellectual and not very social. And we'll see what he's going to do. He's graduated from Berkeley. But he's right now finding himself, which our son is finding crazy, but I think I'm not surprised. And Heath, who is going to be some kind of an engineer, and Scout, who is in college. And then we go way down. And his four-year-old, Lily, is very cute. And we'll see them next month. So that's John's children.
[01:46:47.62] And then Lizzie has Austin, who is a videographer, and spent a couple of years in-- more than two, because he re-upped-- in the Peace Corps in Tanzania and did, again, a lot of videography work there for the Peace Corps, and is now doing that in Chicago. And then we have-- She has Drew, who is finding himself in his 20s and selling electronics.
[01:47:28.81] And then Mark's kids are Jasmine who graduated from Eastern in English lit and has been doing a lot of writing, but is deep into vintage clothing and works at the shop on 4th Avenue in town, and Caleb, who is a graphic artist and also works at Beasley's Restaurant, because that's what artists do, and Zach, who is living in Hamtramck and doing music. And that's Mark. Ran does not have children.
[01:48:16.06] Natania has Olivia, who is a superstar in athletics and academics in Denver, and Iana, who is at Huron, and is so sweet, and so talented, and so self-effacing that she's chosen the viola, because she can hide behind the violins and the cellos, and nobody ever has to look at her, and Xavian, who is at Tappan in eighth grade, and is-- we're a little worried about where he's going, but he has no interests right now, just eighth grade. And Azaria, who is ready to fly.
[01:49:05.20] And if we count Jasmine as an extended daughter, she and her husband Osman smartly moved to Canada. They are emigrating. But she is in town now with habiba, who is this 18-month-old, who is so verbal, and really amazing, and very agile. She was a preemie. And she's off the charts. So I think that's 17.
[01:49:43.32] ELLIE: That's insane. You have people everywhere. Wait, is there any questions anyone would like to [INAUDIBLE]?
[01:49:50.71] SPEAKER 2: I think just quickly, just because you mentioned, because we asked earlier about the protests that you've been in, do you know how many you've been in?
[01:49:57.19] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Lots.
[01:49:57.87] SPEAKER 2: Lots. Not countable?
[01:50:01.18] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No.
[01:50:01.40] ELLIE: If you had estimate?
[01:50:02.31] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Hm?
[01:50:02.80] ELLIE: If you had to estimate?
[01:50:04.05] RUTH ZWEIFLER: No, because you know, they're here, and in DC. And we were in the several, many Washington marches, both Civil Rights and anti-war. And there was a big one in New York that we took all the kids to on the train. And they're here all the time.
[01:50:31.77] SPEAKER 2: So roughly from what year to what year did you do protesting?
[01:50:36.30] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well, from '60 on. It doesn't end. Of course, I haven't done anything either. I don't know what's effective. I don't know how to-- you know, I wish.
[01:50:48.54] ELLIE: OK, thank you so much for talking with us. It's great to hear your story.
[01:50:51.21] RUTH ZWEIFLER: Well thank you for listening.

Media

2018

Length: 01:50:52

Copyright: Creative Commons (Attribution, Non-Commercial, Share-alike)

Rights Held by: Nice Work Public Media

Downloads

Video - 2.2GB

Subjects
Quakers
Ann Arbor Society of Friends
Jewish Culture
Bryn Mawr College
Student Advocacy Center
Imprisonment
Mass Incarceration
World War II
Ann Arbor Public Schools - Desegregation
Residential Segregation
Desegregation
Girls Group
Fair Housing Ordinance
Sit-Ins
Civil Rights Activists
Anti-Zionism
Palestin
LOH Housing - Ann Arbor
Ann Arbor
Education
Oral Histories
Religion
Social Issues
Legacies Project
Ruth Zweifler
Dr. Andrew Zweifler
Glenn Miller
Duke Ellington
Adolf Hitler
W. E. B. Dubois
Walter Spink
S. J. Elden
Nancy Cornelia Wheeler
Edgewood Ln Palisades NJ
Bogota NJ
Westside Dr & W 72nd St New York NY
Palestine