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continued from page 29 Youne coming on the stage making the statements aeainst politics he did at Altamont. He said politics is bullshit, of course. And you find those people out there at the Moratorium responding to the cast ot Hair, which is one of the most bourgeois decadent trips that has ever gone down. On the other hand you have them booing David Hilliard. Uroupol radicáis and revolutionaries, is to take up'the gun. That's only alternativc at this point, becausc the slru'ggle has pustied itself as far as it can go in a Inonvioivnl manner. On campusos they can no longer have a San Francisco State without masses of people licmu slaughtercd. And so there are only two alternalivcs lelt tor people in the so-called movement - move back mto the community and get that conslituency in your sidc or move into bands ot arniies and jusÜ takt' over. So the music has done as much as it can. (j; Do uu sec a rrlationship Ix'twccii llw politica) ( i'l(lniciit nt llir black ciinimunity and it.s impact on Ihr 1 -loiint-iit l Uil' politica! lonscioosncss of thr umie fOHimunity? l'coplf talk abmit black leadership and tlie vanj{iiarcl and it secms to me ihorr'sa siniilai' thinj? happening on a cultural leveL I .11 i rinloict' each nthcr. Kolanri: Black music is Ikmiik very miiuenced by rockanii-roll mm. black and white music aro interaeting nou Al onetimeit was.just oneway- biack mu jusl totallvpushmf itsclf onto white music, because the ulule people had no music of their OWfl, but I think ilhinns likt1 the Beatles' Rubber Soul helpfid estaWish luist1 lor thal interact ion. But ti?e whoio basis of American culture is black lccause the basis of thal ulule culture is exported f rom Kurope. But you stiil sr Ihere are sonie groups that transcend aii these (alerones, lor example a group likt Sly and ihe !-"; tiiilv Stone or a group like Santana We knov. that u-hal kVeps ihem from hcing close is the e las divisions anilraeisni.Miol the actuality of the culture itsW: . You know, it suprised me. a whole lot of-WSfev. people know a lot about Dylan. That had a lot öf ifl lluence on people. Hes just fantastic. Like Bobl Seale an.l Huey Newton were very L]WJ[lm sons They lislened loa lul ui Li y km . and gola wnhuneh ol i(JkMS. iwilicutariy Huey. and EJdridge too. People liavf Ixvnwriting articlcs about s.jul music anrt hou ilu-yn-'s no such thing ös Wue-evd soul. You know lonk al Áretba. a whtte person coulil never do ttol ' Voi ftnd Ihat ttol whoJo thing breaks down Libv itwt wl ouai.vsis other than a class analysis has U-H m' vyy coUt Class to mo st-ems to the 'n-wtin tacftiV in lives. Cause it has a lot to do with vmir social Jife. It affects your Kfestyle. .'H-vthiHK lts going tnaffecMhat wbole trip. And i„Hx s v.cil. rt'snot .jtist clatis, hut th class ihmií hriníís 'verythíng inlo play ): WtM'to ai tliitis UX lum" In tcvnisof jour mn llii, hut als tilines i gfnrral. St olj thf aiusiitultur' ïhiiiR. Itttt tl' whlf MlHial thin Kolaivl: 1 thtnk we'n1 lor :j pi ■ M.lll: [i I bat i 1 Music nov That's tin1 Ihing with today. soul mn ii's Kcformisi. or ultural rv.yoluHonary, the thcmi Vottknow, the ghetto i a lot of soul nes but still nothing h:, ut of soul i I the leve) of "Streel Figh ain you i the emphasis on the ghetto because of cultui pression and becausc the question first and fon on tho minds of black ppoplc I believe, is the nationaiX questicn, and nationa! solidarity. I think that pop art at least n the black commumty is very lar behind. I oven th'mk that rock and rolt overall is bchind the pfiople, !9H Á; You try to put together a show five nights a week, Cour hours a night of music that in some kind of way reflects a new kind of world. lve songs are stil! about cats copping chicks. . TheyTe st.ll about chicks misused by cats. It still isn't reflecting a revvolutionary culture. I love that kind of music but then mam 1 understand that the masses of people in tnis countrv move very slowly and I don't want to ge ahead of them. 1 understand where ttiey re at and I want to bc righl with them. (i:VluM ou sa.v "cultural" vou doM mean that in a nrgaüvf seust1. Koland: I'm saying that that's. as far as Black music has gone. It can end up benig m-native il U's cultural nationalism. it il dpesn Í exor.-ss a way mit oí the oppression. I think that popular art. at least in the black eommunity. is very lar behind. U: I wiuor if imisii tan evpress a way uit of jiiK-Hsion. Koland: In this country today some ol the most rcvolutionary music is music associated with "avantiinnU-" .jazz and the lifestyle of the musicians as well as the art form itseíf. The music of Archie Shop and Cecil Taylor and John CoUrano. Those cats were the first to explore Eastern forms ol mystieism. The on!y vvhiles who were into it the Beatniks and that ., vwy smal! group of people. That group tas been arountl fora-vt-rv long time, but their art form is not a popular one and Iherefore a lot of thcir mcssagi-s ilon't !4't ovcr to tho masse! of people. Wo know that ixip arl n this eoun on oí thi estabhsh■n TIn-v ■■t thr tone for it ly what they put on the radio tha1 íhcy control. They créate it in the nut llii'v popula rizo it. (hoy it into a poblar forni : s.-.mi.s that f Hh best . .sUiaus m groups Hk, ,lir .I,fl,,.... Airplari, uanU,! , Ufa i aixl toril VM.M-I.V..I i.asons. pr.manlv ihal. Ibcyww uU-, tti.v twk wk-ami-roll. It sci-oml l)fst_ Roland: Qúcago is a good example. Even plastic oups like Bloca Sweat and Tears. Nobody can make Kiayuz, white or Wack. Ifs a mytb that black are ne3 successfut m Jazz than whiteS ThatV nol true. Most money maBefey -jaia muslciai?.m"S,te studio musicians. Black people appear in most clubsWoody Herman probably tnakes the mostrnoney of anTiaZZ mus.cian, If John Coítrane bad ba vrtate imagine the mooey he would have made Used ta be a timewhen íazz clubs wouWnot hire wh.te groups. That jaz? was controlled by just a small group of racists who wánted to have black people perfora for thèm . Now tbat situatkm has changed. The rnusíc oí Omette Coleman, man, has been some ofthe most significant musíc in America and we know that he hasn't been rewarded for that. That whole jazz-rock tbitig is such a shuck- groups like Blood Sweat and Tears that have horas and use a few more chords. KJAZ in San Francisco) has been playing a lot of that as a way of popularizing their format to bring in more lísteners and money, and they 've been successful at it. Q: Can you tell us a liltle of the feeling that goes into composing a show? , Roland: I spend the whole day running through in my head various forms of music to put together and various things to work out, formsof information that I want to give out to people. Checking news sources, magazines. I read all the underground papers. Uisten to the news on all stations, talk stations, soul, as much as 1 can. A normal preparation would consist of iting all these thins out as well as ideas for music. I to the station two hours early to pull all the records ; sten tothem, bring tny lamp in, turn thelights off, turn my lamp on, set up a whole lot of shit. Most of all. getting the music together, oecause n me mubic not together. if it's not.the way I would want it to then tbeinformation wili not go oüt as smooth as I The tesis of my program is thE music, that's why people are turning it on. Q: The interesling thing is that you see music as expressing almosteverything that's going on in the intry. Voh use the music to deal with alt the other things that you look al. el; talk ai And how that directly relates to how his guitar is betng played And where the sounds of that guitar come from. 'INus you see an exchange between a man and a woman plus you see a cultural expression. Songs that have lyrics are composed of at least three things: melodie information, rhythmic information and then the lyrics themselves. Each one of those songs relates to another song in some kind of significant way and some other kinds of ideas as well. If all these can be told in the right form, the right manner, it seems very valuable- like writing something and sending it out. Different cultures havedifferent kindsof rhythms Ragas are based on very different rhythms from those - of Iran and rhythms seem to be very indicative of how certain kinds of peopies are moving at a certam time. ou remember those leather jackets and motorcycles, Ae rhythm for that music was a hard downbeat, very sitople, straight through the song and as times became mm, complex rhythms changed and became more complex. As John Coltrane developed he got away frfwn mdodvalmostcompletelyandintopolyrhythm and as his life became more complex his rhythm structure did too. Q: Do you relate your rapping to the music more directly? Roland: Sure, man, sure. Whatever kind of music I was playing at the time I would be rapping. For ïnstance, if I was playing some Ray Charles music, some oi his very slow stuff, then there were certam kinds of raps that were relevant to that, and others weren 't. The same kind of rap that s relevant to "Street Fighting Man" is not to Ray Charles. And I try to keep that in mind. Plus some of it is magie, I guess. Which is to s.ay that some of it is not exP aiThate was so beautiful, man, cause I just loved playing that music. Heavy speakers, that sound coming at you. A good high. I'd like to say that the revolution is about staying high. I mean staying high by staying elated, digging what you're doing. Very much involved in the whole process on a daily basis. The assuredness of what you're doing, and why you re doing it. And how you're goingto do it. It's about that total understanding of yourself. It's about that kind of high lm not talking about enjoymg going to jail, aetting beat across the head. But enjoying what ouredoing and if you were doing anything else you would not enjoy it. What you're doing leads to certain things, that's the cons'equences, but the fun is the act of what you're doing, thecreative process you're engaged in and that's making revolution, love, or whatever And it seems like if revolutionaries are high. and elated, then, they're going to be heavy. And if they're down and gray and like , alot of them were in the 3O's and 40's, then, they'H have trouble. Cause if it's not going to be fun, at least on the level of knowing what you're doing and where you're going, it's not worth doing. Q: Yeah.Idon'tthinkyoumeanfun... Roland: Yeah, I mean fun. I mean digging it. Iike you may have something you dig more but the process- digging struggling more than digging not struggling. Like the act of struggling itself makes you happier than it wouldif you weren' tstruggling. So you are digging it on that level. And at times the struggle itself is fun, particularty if you won a tactical victory Like Tm sure that the battle of Dien Bien Phu was fun when it was over to the brothers when they did the French in. I think people eau get it in their heads when you say , 4 mtataterpretatton of what you're Roland: You know everybody says the same thing when ! say fun. They say I don't mean i fun but I DO, man, I do mean fun. Like we had fun the otner day at that protest at the Air France because we knew what we were struggling against and we knew ultimately what we were going to do. Thát was the time they decided to stop Emory nouglas of the Black Panther Party and Don Cox and Emory's wife Judy. They were in Paris and were going to Algiers. ... Roland Right. And Air France detained them, so Emory said. all right, I'U go over to Air Algiers, and they said ok. He went over to Air Algiers and found out that Air France owned it and he got a good political educaüon about imperialism and monopoly capitalism right there. Fred Hampton said he was tor, proletanan ïntoxicated to be astronomically intimidated...he was talking about that too. Fred was a cat who had fun in what he was doing; you could teil that by the things he said, by the way he related to them. he knew it was a verv heavy trip he was into, But it didn't mean nonstruggle for him. It just means you're more into. It would be even more fun not to have a world that needed struggle, but I think that's absurd to talk about. There was a need before I was here and there wil! be a need long after, so I don't even want to get into that. But through struggle even according to traditional rxist thinking, I believe, people began to realizo os. to become themselves. That they m.; ir own history fhrough their struggles and that should b ils fun. You read the 'S and you can see the he obviously did, the to ches ey lical John e to make a v problem of iunand tics at the time. Whereas Abbie Hoffman understood some of the concepts but politically I never thought he quite understood a lot of things. He was always more culturaUst than he was anything else Q: So.whereaowe.gofromhere? Roland' I hope that the movement becomes more revolutionary, more beautiful, and more dopeoriented In the positive sense of the word that people use dope to libérate themselves and not to oppress themselves. That they really expand their minds, whatever they can do, and fhat people all join together I who have any kind of complaints against this country on any level. Join togtther and support the Black' Panther Party! Not necessanly all of their politics or their Ten Point Program or any of that but support the fact that they 're being harrassed daily. That they have large bails, and it's clearly an attempt to break up the Black Panther Party. Which ultimately wiü mean an attempt to break up all dissent in this country. So if you come to the defense of the Black Panther Party now, you may save yourself tomorrow. All Power to the People'. And Oink to the Oinkers'. KcOWop