Auto History Night! Joseph Jendza (Top Hat John) & Victoria Mobley (Of The Society of Automotive Historians) Discuss The World Of Classic Cars
When: July 12, 2012 at the Downtown Library: Multi-Purpose Room
Celebrate the history of automobiles (and the 2012 Rolling Sculpture Car Show) when Joseph Jendza (Top Hat John) and Victoria Mobley (of the Society of Automotive Historians) discuss classic cars and popular culture. This event is also part of the day-long celebration of the DDA's opening of Library Lane (the parking structure next to the Library).Joseph Jendza or "Top Hat John," well-known local specialty automotive historian and enthusiast car collector will discuss the colorful history and many types of classic cars. If you want to know more about the classic car stored in your garage - this is an excellent program to attend!Joe has hosted hundreds of classic car shows and hosted and produced 200+ automotive cable television shows locally and nationally. He shares his love of the automobile through his specialty vehicle appraisal services, car show presentations, news columns and stories in local, national, and international publications. Victoria Mobley is the producer of local car shows, car cruise nights and is the Secretary/Treasurer of The Society of Automotive Historians/Leland Chapter. She will share her award winning presentation: Fashion and the Automobile, which highlights the many changes wrought on popular culture by the evolution of the car. She and her assistant will do the presentation in full costume!Do not miss this special event at the Library and the celebration of the 2012 Rolling Sculpture Car Show and opening of Library Lane.
Transcript
- [00:00:26.32] CECILE DUNHAM: John Joseph Jendza and Victoria Mobley, who are both of the Society of Automotive Historians, are here tonight. And John Joseph is also known as Top Hat John. You might have heard of him. He's a car enthusiast, auto historian, and he's also a classic car appraiser. And so without further ado, join me in welcoming Top Hat John.
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- [00:00:55.02] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: And I really do wear a top hat.
- [00:01:12.69] I love automobiles. That's number one. And I'm sure that most of you all are here because you probably enjoy automobiles as much as we do. And we've got a kind of different program for you today than what you might typically see. It involves fashion and the automobile.
- [00:01:30.13] Well, a lot of people don't know that there were-- and then again, maybe you do-- that there were an awful lot of things that made the auto-- oh, there's that ace. I was wondering where that was. That works. When you have cards, you need that to win.
- [00:01:45.28] There's a lot of different things that goes into an automobile, and a lot of different byproducts, and a lot of things that happen. During the 20th century, the automobile had become probably the most prolific piece of people-production item to enhance every aspect of life on this planet that we call Earth. Yeah, there were other products that led to the build and life of the automobile, but no other production item has changed our lives as much as the automobile had.
- [00:02:20.00] Steel-built bridges made taller buildings possible, and supplied the required skeleton to the automobile. Iron was the mainstay of the build of the automobile drive trains, and as a byproduct of the food chain, the textile and leather industries supplied the material trim of the interiors. The oil industry supplied gasoline and created a power supply industry, and plastics as a derivative. Marketing and advertising on a huge scale was created to sell the automobile and all of its cast. And the world as a whole moved like it never did before, and we celebrate the automobile as such.
- [00:03:05.51] I've been very fortunate to be around the automobile in a professional capacity from an engineering standpoint at Chrysler Corporation years ago. I got interested in tires when I was just a kid. Dad would take me to the lots that the new cars would be. When they would come out of the factories, and they'd put them on the trucks, we'd sneak in there and go look at them.
- [00:03:33.19] One of my favorites was always Cadillac. Mom said that the first word out of my mouth wasn't Mom. It was Cadillac. And I've owned about 35 of them through the years. I've certainly enjoyed them very, very much.
- [00:03:47.49] Some 26 years ago, for the third time in my life, I developed my own business doing specialty vehicle appraisals, writing for magazines about automobiles. Ended up even with my own television show, and I've done over 300 television shows that have pretty much covered areas of Michigan. And fortunately have gone to different parts of the country and even around the world.
- [00:04:10.71] We started up a company called Victoria Motors. Victoria owned it. She'll be up here to talk to you shortly. And we had an awful lot of fun. Well, for 25 years I haven't had to work for anybody else. And if I ever wanted to go fishing or go to breakfast anywhere I wanted to, anytime, I could do it, and that's a wonderful thing. It's all been supplied by the automobile.
- [00:04:34.90] Things got very serious, and we started to get some accolades, which is very nice to support a business. We became a member of the Society of Automotive Historians, and ended up as a director, second time now.
- [00:04:50.09] Let's see, Bob Elton? Bob Elton's hiding in here, and Bob and his wonderful wife Mary, they were involved in-- how many years, Bob, with SAH?
- [00:04:57.92] BOB ELTON: It's a lot.
- [00:04:59.91] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: A lot. I'm a member of the Automotive Press Association. I write for a number of magazines as well as doing the appraisals. I'm a member of the National Automobile Dealers Association guide for classic automobiles. And just this year-- well, actually, I think it was 2003. We were inducted into the Hall of Fame north up in St. Ignace. And this year we were the guest of honor, which is neat.
- [00:05:26.50] But that doesn't put bread on the table. Working does, as so many of us know.
- [00:05:30.44] But the automobile has supplied so much, so much of life all over the world. We've literally put the world on wheels. But there's so many variables that have gone with that, as I spoke of a little bit on what the different things are.
- [00:05:46.81] One side of the automobile that so many of us may be aware of is the styling studios. Harley Earl was famous, Art and Color, and people that carried on for him. But there were a lot of women involved in the automotive world that had a lot to do with what the interiors of cars look like. They developed salons where cars would be looked at, and people could come in and choose. The rich, the ultra rich, could pick the interiors, colors, products that they wanted on the inside of their cars.
- [00:06:22.49] Then women got involved in it. And if you remember some of the ads-- I'll bet a lot of you remember seeing ads in Life magazine, Look magazine, with women standing next to cars. Could go back into the '20s, '30s, '40s, '50s. Even Cadillac in the '50s made a point in their brochures to have women dressed in beautiful, flowing gowns next to their cars. Fashion and the automobile.
- [00:06:50.91] Well, I'm going to let Victoria and Elaine Vermeersch, Victoria Mobley and Elaine Vermeersch, who've developed a really neat program called Fashion and the Automobile. And they've got something really neat to show you here today, and I think we'll all enjoy it. Let me introduce to you Elaine Vermeersch and Victoria Mobley.
- [00:07:11.99] VICTORIA MOBLEY: Hello.
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- [00:07:17.48] VICTORIA MOBLEY: Thank you, John. The Art Center, now commonly known as the Anton Art Center, is housed in the historic Carnegie Library in Mount Clemens. It is probably the only facility of its kind in Macomb County. The Carnegie Library building is listed on the State of Michigan Historical Register.
- [00:07:40.63] In 2005, the Art Center broke ground on a $1.6 million renovation and addition. The gallery is located in the original historic portion of the building, with original windows, original front doors, woodworking, and columns, a lovely space for our debut in October of 2010 for Fashion and the Automobile, an Exhibit in 10 Eras.
- [00:08:07.01] The start of our journey is the 1800s, where the dawn of the automobile began, and takes you through present day. As you travel through the 10 vignettes, you will also encounter U-turns. Let us take you on an entertaining photographic musical journey. And remember, what's old is new again. Take a look.
- [00:08:30.39] [MUSIC - HOWARD LANIN ORCHESTRA, "DON'T WAKE ME UP, LET ME DREAM"]
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- [00:09:35.26] [MUSIC - TOMMY DORSEY, "SMOKE GETS IN YOUR EYES"]
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- [00:10:05.23] [MUSIC - GLENN MILLER, "IN THE MOOD"]
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- [00:10:49.85] [MUSIC - THE BIG BOPPER, "CHANTILLY LACE"]
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- [00:11:15.09] [MUSIC - THE PLATTERS, "SMOKE GETS IN YOUR EYES"]
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- [00:11:39.85] [MUSIC - THE BEACH BOYS, "409"]
- [00:12:04.58] [MUSIC - THE BEE GEES, "MORE THAN A WOMAN"]
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- [00:12:30.48] [MUSIC - MADONNA, "MATERIAL GIRL"]
- [00:12:48.90] [MUSIC - MADONNA, "VOGUE"]
- [00:12:54.88] [MUSIC - ONE DIRECTION, "WHAT MAKES YOU BEAUTIFUL"]
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- [00:13:49.59] VICTORIA MOBLEY: First, we'd like to thank Cecile Dunham and the Ann Arbor District Library, and all of you for attending. We are Fashion and the Automobile, an Exhibit in 10 Eras. This is Elaine Vermeersch, our event coordinator and reception planner. Elaine is the secretary of the Motor City Galaxie Club, a party planner, and a producer of a successful fundraiser called the Annual Spring Fling, where a deserving charity is chosen each year. Next year the Spring Fling will mark its 25th year.
- [00:14:22.66] Lynn Anderson, our fashion curator, is a consultant for period films, specializing in the Edwardian era. Lynn is a Titanic historian, lecturer, and performer at Titanic interactive dinner theaters. Lynn is a vintage clothing and wardrobe expert. Her private collection of fashion and accessories spans over 100 years. Lynn is a professional actress, spokesperson, and voice-over artist. She is also a freelance automotive journalist and a contributing editor and columnist for Hot VWs Magazine. She is currently traveling for Volkswagen dealers, conducting seminars, and that's why she isn't here tonight.
- [00:15:03.69] I am Victoria Mobley, exhibit curator and creator of Fashion and the Automobile, an Exhibit in 10 Eras. I produce car shows and cruise nights and fundraising activities. I am also the secretary treasurer of the Society of Automotive Historians, the Leland chapter, where Top Hat John is the director.
- [00:15:24.57] I created Fashion and the Automobile out of a love and passion for the automobile and fashion. After many years of research and with encouragement from Top Hat, my vision was submitted to the Anton Art Center in answer to their call for new exhibits. I was awarded the opportunity, and the exhibit made its debut at the Anton Art Center in October 2010.
- [00:15:49.86] Fashion and the Automobile is an exploration of 10 eras, a virtual drive through memory lane showing the relationship between fashion and automotive design, how both were influenced by function, environment, lifestyle, and world events. All of the automobiles are depicted by automotive artists in original fine art, photographs, and renderings. The fashion, artifacts, and accessories are original pieces. The artists' work are for sale.
- [00:16:22.98] A comprehensive journey accompanies each era, giving the viewer a brief history of the fashion, the cars, as well as interesting facts from each time period. When you get a chance, take a look at our display of the 1950s. That's only a portion of what the exhibit would look like. It does carry with it the journal, and we change it for each exhibit.
- [00:16:51.33] The little dress you're going to see in a couple of the different videos that we'll show you. Interesting enough, the skirt and the shirt were part of an outfit, and Lynn happened to find the sweater in a different antiques shop, and it all matched. She wears it at Woodward quite often as well.
- [00:17:14.09] The Ford Motor Company was not even a year old, and Henry was only 40, when the stockholders on April 1, 1904, authorized the purchase of a little more than three acres on Piquette, bounded by Beaubien Street on the east and Brush Street on the west. The first products assembled in the building were a series of letter cars, which were later discontinued. September 27, 1908, the first Model T emerged, and continued through January 1910 before being transferred to Highland Park.
- [00:17:53.45] Piquette is very well-preserved and largely unchanged from its 1904 appearance. The exterior is complete with original fire escapes and windows. The third floor is virtually unchanged, and has never been painted since the day they left in 1910. It has original sliding doors and original floors, the same floor where the first 12,000 Model T's were actually built. Watch closely in the beginning, and you will also see a photo of the experimental room where Ford developed the Model T.
- [00:18:32.33] [MUSIC - BILLY MURRAY, "THE LITTLE FORD RAMBLED RIGHT ALONG"]
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- [00:21:57.11] VICTORIA MOBLEY: In April 2000, the building was acquired by the Model T Automotive Heritage Complex, and is now referred to as Piquette T-Plex. We were extremely honored to have been invited by directors Pat Linklater and Richard Rubens to display our exhibit from June 2011 until October 2011. The exhibit was the entertainment and backdrop for many weddings and special events, including the Eyes on Design charity black tie in June of 2011.
- [00:22:28.45] The Piquette T-Plex museum is a very different space than the gallery of the Anton Art Center. We had to adapt our exhibit to this beautiful original building. We also were able to use their display cabinets, which allowed us to show more accessories and artifacts. You can imagine how we felt putting up our exhibit on the same floor that Henry Ford walked.
- [00:23:03.35] That same summer, 2011, Matt Dreger, who is the city commissioner for Mount Clemens and president of the Anton Art Center told me of his vision to have a fundraiser at the Art Center. How about if we have a charity black tie, much like the one downtown? And we could showcase the automobile and celebrate the automobile right here in Mount Clemens.
- [00:23:26.95] My first reaction was, it's winter. All the car people have their cars in storage, and even if we were able to gather some, I couldn't put them in the gallery. He responded, we have Fashion and the Automobile. It could provide the entertainment, and the art gallery a lovely space.
- [00:23:47.51] Well, of course we were honored, and began planning not only an exhibit but also a party. January 13, 2012, the charity black tie gala happened. You will see by the pictures that the people are enjoying the exhibit as well as the added entertainment of Full Throttle, an a cappella doo-wop group. Barry Alan provided the music and lighting, and Top Hat John was our emcee.
- [00:24:13.45] Different pieces and additional artists were added to the exhibit from its original debut. You will see Carol LaChiusa. Carol is 82 years old, is an artist from Grosse Pointe, with her paintings of Rolls Royce. We also included pieces of jewelry from a jewelry artisan, by Calliope Fahoome from Treasures of Time. Her pieces personify "what's old is new again." Top Hat John also shared his collection of original priceless paintings from Fisher Body Craftsman's Guild. Take a look at our charity black tie gala celebrating the automobile.
- [00:24:54.74] [MUSIC - GLENN MILLER, "IN THE MOOD/LITTLE BROWN JUG/AMERICAN PATROL/PENNSYLVANIA 6-5000" MEDLEY]
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- [00:29:42.73] VICTORIA MOBLEY: Fashion and the Automobile has been submitted for a national award, the EP Ingersoll Award, through the National Organization of the Society of Automotive Historians. This prestigious award, given for the best presentation of automotive history in other than print media. EP Ingersoll was the editor of the Horseless Age, considered to be the very first automotive publication, starting in 1895, and was published until 1918.
- [00:30:14.04] The addition of Chuck Jones, a retired Ford clay modeler and a professional promo model collector, is someone we are planning on adding to the exhibit. We thought having model cars with our exhibit would add a different touch, and I think promo cars would be quite nice for going through the different eras.
- [00:30:34.59] The charity black tie at the Anton Art Center will be happening again, January 2013. And we just recently found out that the Lorenzo Cultural Center in the Macomb College on Hall Road and Garfield in Clinton Township, it will be there the summer of 2013. We've also been talking to Barrett-Jackson, and if all goes well, we may be previewed at the Barrett-Jackson in January. So more to follow on that.
- [00:31:06.84] Fashion and the Automobile, an Exhibit in 10 Eras, spans generations with interest and memories. It was our pleasure to take you on a drive through memory lane. Thank you. John?
- [00:31:20.17] [APPLAUSE]
- [00:31:23.08] VICTORIA MOBLEY: And I do have to make one announcement. That's my mother over there. My mom is 97 years old. And I get a lot of my inspiration from my mother. My mother was also an artist, and early on decided that maybe she would do better if she became an engineer. So my mom was an engineer for 35 years as a brooch designer. So maybe that's where it comes from. I don't know. And with his encouragement, I'm dangerous, so.
- [00:31:52.61] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Kind of interesting when you consider that Mom is 97. Is literally college-educated, but not in the sense of the word that we expect it to be in a schooling system. Back then-- of course, that was last century, right? Oh, yeah. But back then it was, you worked and you went to school. But pretty tough for a woman in that time frame to do what it is that she had done.
- [00:32:22.55] My father was art director of Fisher Body Craftsman's Guild, so he couldn't change a spark plug, but he sure could draw and loved automobiles. He got me started picking up automobile brochures. The first one was 1950. It was a Cadillac. I still have that one, along with hundreds and hundreds of other brochures and books that literally date back to the 1800s. So it's a lot of fun.
- [00:32:47.94] But the fashion part of it, to really get the full feel of it, it's one thing to see just a couple of items and see a little bit of it on the screen. But to actually see it in a full display, it opens up a whole different through process and idea of how much the woman, ladies, and what went into producing an automobile as well as some of the lines in the cars.
- [00:33:22.24] What I'd like to do is kind of open it up, if you'd like. Are there any questions about anything that might be a part of this program, or anything that we are doing? And by the way, I should interject. Thank you for saying "Leland chapter," because I said, "director of the Society of Automotive Historians, and it is the Leland chapter. So if you have anything you'd like to ask or mention, please step up and do so.
- [00:33:51.25] And we do have a microphone right there. And we have two folks there. Bob Elton.
- [00:33:58.93] AUDIENCE: Yeah. I just wanted to mention the reason it's called the Leland chapter of the SAH is because it's named after Henry Leland, who basically pioneered precision manufacturing. And because he's in Detroit, that's why the auto industry is in Detroit, and that's why we're all in Detroit or in Michigan. Not a small achievement.
- [00:34:16.69] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Thank you, Bob. And just a quick comment about that, if you will, and then he'll pass the microphone, if you would, over to that gentlemen.
- [00:34:23.57] Henry Ford started the automobile business, and failed a number of times. Henry Leland as an accountant, and if you would, maybe even an appraiser, came in and looked at the dissolutionment plan of Ford's fledgling company and said, this thing is too good to throw away. Let's make an automobile out of it. It became the Cadillac.
- [00:34:49.05] Leland, of course, got involved with Durant, who was General Motors, and he bought Cadillac from Leland. Henry and Leland left the company, went and formed another company called Lincoln, of which Henry Ford bought that company. So it's pretty interesting how it went in a great circle. And Leland, as you say, he's the one who brought in the Swiss go and no-go gauges, and literally introduced the interchangeability of parts with Cadillac, and had won the Dewar Award I believe twice.
- [00:35:22.32] Wasn't it, Bob? I think he won that twice, one for interchangeability of parts, and I believe the other for the starter.
- [00:35:29.03] AUDIENCE: Yes, the second one was for the electric starter. Henry Leland should be considered one of the great benefactors of women drivers, in fact, because before the electric starters, you had to be a big, burly guy to get those cars started. And after that, all you needed to do was push the button.
- [00:35:46.46] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Yes. Yes, sir. And if you want to give us your name also, please.
- [00:35:51.79] AUDIENCE: Clark [? Turnansky. ?] I'll just add that of course the electric starter was also kind of the death knell for the electric automobile, I think because users of electric automobiles were women, because they didn't have to crank from the start. You're a historian. Probably I'm just summarizing.
- [00:36:09.03] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Sure.
- [00:36:09.95] AUDIENCE: My question is, the Piquette Plant, what was it used for after the Model T was transferred out of there? And is it open for tours? And if so, when?
- [00:36:20.60] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: It is open for tours. And I think you may have that information, Victoria, when the tours are. And I can't tell you what the plant was used for after automobile production ended there.
- [00:36:35.67] VICTORIA MOBLEY: Actually, I brought some information. If you go to tplex.org-- is it right there? It did say that when they left in 1910, they were still using it for offices. Then after that, Studebaker moved in. And then after that, there were a couple of other different companies. But yes, it is open for tours. It's in that little bag I gave you.
- [00:37:04.19] And they would love to have you come in. There's a beautiful video that they have of what went on in the area. And like I said, it's virtually untouched. It was amazing. On all three floors, it was incredible.
- [00:37:17.21] AUDIENCE: I hadn't even heard of it until the night that the Piquette Market next door burned, and it looked like that building might go too. They had it on TV 'til about 2:00 in the morning.
- [00:37:27.43] VICTORIA MOBLEY: No. And it's very easy to get to. It's just north of 94 just off of Woodward. Piquette goes right out into Woodward.
- [00:37:38.53] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Just an interesting--
- [00:37:39.62] AUDIENCE: I read a book about the early history of the Ford Motor Company. And it said that early on in like about 1910, he was reluctant to go to the assembly line, and that a lot of craftspeople left when the assembly line started. Do you know about that?
- [00:37:57.68] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: I don't have a lot of information or knowledge on that, no. And I have to say, I've read all of the books, and I don't remember that. That very well could be. Anybody have a comment on that? Bob, are you familiar with that at all?
- [00:38:12.76] AUDIENCE: I know all about it.
- [00:38:14.33] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: There you go. Thank you. It's always great to have people involved.
- [00:38:17.96] AUDIENCE: Hi, my name is Bill. Yeah, I was here a couple of months ago when that very guy Thomas Crumm was here talking about his book. And the library has it available, so I got a copy and read it. And yes, according to his researches-- he was a GM engineer for 30 years-- Henry Ford did resist going to the assembly line, because he knew he would lose his craftspeople that he had acquired for 10 years. And that's exactly what happened.
- [00:38:49.14] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: A quick comment. When you had stated about the electric cars, back in the turn of the century when automobiles became prevalent, if you will, where there may have been three or four in a town, they really didn't know whether electric cars were going to be the type of automobile power supply we would have, or the fossil fuel. Had it not been for Rockefeller having set up the distribution and the supply lines for gasoline, we very well may have had electric cars, because they worked. They worked very well.
- [00:39:26.10] And if you take a look at some of the old electric cars that existed through the '20s, some of their dynamos aren't all that different from what we are looking at today. Of course, today is more modern and computerized. But back then they didn't know which way it really was going to go, electric or gasoline.
- [00:39:48.62] Any other questions at all, or comments? Right up front, please.
- [00:39:55.77] AUDIENCE: My name is Al [? Waluszyk. ?] And I don't know if this fits into your definition of the classic era of automobiles. I don't know whether the classic era is considered a rigid era like from the '20s to the early '40s, or whether it's defined as cars 50 years and older. But could you discuss a little bit General Motors development of their 1959 cars? That was Harley Earl's parting shot, and the most radically styled cars ever put on the American road.
- [00:40:26.30] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Well, at the time my father would take me to a lot of different places when General Motors was in their heyday. You have to remember that at that time General Motors had at least 54% of the industry as far as sales were concerned, and the European cars or Asian cars didn't really matter all that much.
- [00:40:51.57] But what had actually happened there was the forward look of Chrysler set everybody on their tail with the big fins. And fins, of course, started with the 1949 Cadillac with the P-38 design that Harley Earl liked so well. And by the way, also 1949 Cadillac was the first car that won the Motor Trend Car of the Year award. That was its inaugural year, Motor Trend, and that car won that.
- [00:41:21.41] But that was the beginning of fins, and then everybody else kind of followed. And what happened with Chrysler, they were always in third place as far as sales were concerned. Except one year, I think they went to fourth in 1960 when Rambler had taken over that slot, and they dropped down.
- [00:41:41.27] But anyway, with the fins, that started General Motors literally into a scramble. You read about it in the magazines or the publications or books about it. But I remember it very, very well, having been a kid growing up with my father involved in it.
- [00:42:00.89] Harley Earl-- and I'm going to back up just a second here. 1958 was-- you had your '58 Olds, the '58 Buicks, and you remember the Roadmasters and the Limiteds and the Chrome Kings. That's what they reference those vehicles as, the Chrome Kings.
- [00:42:18.32] In 1959, Harley Earl was sent on vacation so that they could take some of the chrome off of some of the cars, including the 1959 Cadillac. And when he came back from vacation, they said, this is what the finished product is going to be, and he, of course, relented. And then in 1960 they were toned down, and fins kind of went away from there.
- [00:42:39.87] You made another comment about classic cars. And classic cars, there is the Classic Car Club of America. They have a range of the limitations on classic cars. And then you have another society that takes over on more modern cars. But the classic cars are up through-- I believe it's 1941 or '42, and then after that there's a more modern-- I can't remember what the name of the reference company is that does it, but they rate the cars as kind of after-classics, if you will.
- [00:43:17.10] But far as being 50 years old or 25 years old, the state at one point said for a classic car, if it's 25 years old, you can get a classic plate. They're not really classics. And by the way, it's now 26 years that the state says for classic. So you've got to have a 1986 car to use an antique or year of make plate, or a classic plate from the state, or a historical. Hope that answers your question.
- [00:43:42.85] Anybody else? Oh, you've got another one?
- [00:43:45.14] AUDIENCE: I do have another quick one.
- [00:43:47.27] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: That's OK. We've got all night, right?
- [00:43:49.33] AUDIENCE: And this would cover cars that truly fit into the classic era. Could you discuss Chrysler's Airflow cars from 1934 to 1938?
- [00:43:57.34] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Well, the Airflow cars were literally a failure. They were wonderful cars. They were unitized construction. They were extremely strong vehicles. Chrysler even had an ad with their Chrysler Airflow that they literally pushed off a cliff, and then got in it and drove it away. That was real. It actually happened. Very interesting cars.
- [00:44:20.98] And you can probably see some really great information at the Chrysler Museum at the Chrysler Tech Center in Auburn Hills. And they have one of those vehicles there. Neat to see that one side of the car internally is different than the other side as far as the windows and some of the controls and whatnot.
- [00:44:41.38] They were cars that were way ahead of their time. And of course, Chrysler came out with unitized construction later. The Asian cars are typically all unitized construction.
- [00:44:52.14] And when you use the terminology "unitized," it literally does not have a frame. It has welded components that make and give the body strength. Bodies that General Motors used, Fisher bodies back in the '50s, '60s, and '70s, all had frames, but the bodies themselves, the fenders, everything was a unit-type construction that mounted on the frame. But true unitized, as Chrysler used then in the Airflows, is a system of panels that give the body and the structure strength.
- [00:45:30.03] Well, we'd like to welcome everybody for-- oh, Mr. Fischbach in the back. By the way, this gentleman is one of the-- well, I call him The Engineer, but he's involved in the sales and all with Car Top Magna. Does great jobs with beautiful tops for vehicles.
- [00:45:46.05] AUDIENCE: Thank you. My question may be better directed at Victoria, but at what point do you think that the fashion played a pivotal role in design for the major auto manufacturers? We all know show cars got dressed up, but I'm thinking now in the realm of the Highlander interior from Chrysler back in the early '40s. At what point do you feel that fashion became a benchmark for automotive design?
- [00:46:31.28] VICTORIA MOBLEY: You know what, Curtis? I had tried right from the very first moment that I came up with this concept to find-- and I even interviewed designers. I wanted to find out what came first. Was it fashion, or was it the automobile? And what was driving what?
- [00:46:52.52] And I found that it was. It was environment, world events. You figure when they did make the automobile, the fashion changed, because now they couldn't get in and out of the car with a bustle. So the clothing way back in the 1800s had to change, and it was like that all the way through. And I kept trying to find out, did fashion drive design, or was it the other way around?
- [00:47:19.42] In the '40s, during the war era when there was rationing of fabrics and they weren't building cars anymore, and the colors were kind of drab, everything was black. Then all of a sudden the floodgates opened in the '50s. The skirts became full, and they were being influenced from designers in Paris. And the cars had a lot of chrome.
- [00:47:46.49] And that's why I did it by era, because when you walk into the era-- and as a matter of fact, this is the first time that the artists were shown this way as well. They usually just have all of their things together. And they were kind of reluctant about going in and sharing a space with somebody else. And I said, no, it's like going in the ultimate video. When you walk into the '50s, you're going to feel you step back into time.
- [00:48:11.14] So when you go from the '40s and you go into the war era, then you walk into the exhibit in the '50s, and how the fabrics change. The cars change. The Dagmars, now that I still don't know which-- maybe John could tell me. What came first, the bumpers on the car or the-- what?
- [00:48:33.68] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: You say it.
- [00:48:35.41] VICTORIA MOBLEY: I don't know. But I kept trying to-- in each and every era, kept trying to find what was first, and I never did find it. And then I started interviewing different designers, and I interviewed people like Camilo Pardo and Jeff Godshall, and wanted to find out what their interest was, and what are they teaching them in like CCS at this time? Are they teaching them history, and are they teaching them the history of fashion and of the automobile?
- [00:49:06.76] And I am not getting any real answers. I guess it's an individual thing. Camilo Pardo is very into fashion, where Jeff Godshall is not. So I'm not sure.
- [00:49:18.95] And I know there was a time period-- I don't remember what it is right now, but it's in part of the journals that I wrote-- where the automobile manufacturers started going to designers and looking to them for fabric choices and color choices. And I know as far back in the '30s, you saw-- if you remember on the fireplace, there was a woman out of Paris that was commissioned by Chrysler to go in and design the interior of the automobile.
- [00:49:51.60] AUDIENCE: Let me follow up on that.
- [00:49:53.67] VICTORIA MOBLEY: Pierre Cardin, for example.
- [00:49:56.61] AUDIENCE: You're giving the examples that led various of the manufacturers, some of them that are gone, like Studebaker and Packard and so forth, who retained-- Nash Pininfarina-- who retained European design consultancy. And that goes back a long way. In your opinion, where did this become a benchmark for the industry?
- [00:50:33.44] VICTORIA MOBLEY: Wow. That's a good question.
- [00:50:36.31] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: You know, styling studios had an awful lot to do with creating fashion, and women being involved in it. And a lot of them didn't even talk about it. Marmon, which you're familiar with, became a big truck supplier builder, and I think went into farm equipment. At some point they had some there.
- [00:51:02.11] But they had a styling studio back in the early '20s, when Harley Earl was brought in from California, and the very first car that was totally designed by a stylist I believe was the LaSalle. And things started to happen, and slowly women were becoming involved. You'd see them, as I first stated when we opened this little get-together, on how women were in the advertising, showing them in long gowns and fashionable. The big thing was picking out the colors that were going to be used.
- [00:51:41.93] But that's something that I have also not been able to discover, if you will. When did the fashion part actually start? Was it the tufted leather that they put in the seats on the buckboards? Or was it when it came from the very rich that could have bodies put on their chassis, whether they had a Rolls Royce or a Duesenberg or a Lincoln or Cadillac, whatever it may have been, Pierce-Arrow. That they would have the bodies literally changed on the chassis for the seasons.
- [00:52:23.60] And women, of course, came in and picked what they wanted. That was the beginning of salon styling. And then, of course, by the time we get into the '50s where the war was over, people had an income, factories were booming, they got into the fashion end of the car with all of the beautiful trim colors that happened.
- [00:52:44.71] But to give you an exact defining moment, myself, I can only guess. And, of course, along with Jeff Godshall, who did interior styling and dashboards at Chrysler, and some of the other folks.
- [00:53:00.93] VICTORIA MOBLEY: Part of my research, I did find that just recently-- well, not recently for today, but maybe in the '90s and the early 2000s. Ford had a designer that was actually a designer of textiles and fashion, and he was heading up their design studio. And I unfortunately don't have his name, but in my research I was finding that out as well.
- [00:53:30.43] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Any other comments or questions?
- [00:53:38.01] AUDIENCE: Yeah, if you want to perhaps look at what was happening in other industries, especially railroads at the time in the '30s as streamliners came in, especially to Milwaukee Road, and I think it was Stevens was the designer there with the Hiawatha.
- [00:53:52.20] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Brooks Stevens?
- [00:53:52.86] AUDIENCE: Yeah. And the Union Pacific and some of the other railroads, what they did, exterior and interior--
- [00:54:01.82] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Pullman cars.
- [00:54:02.57] AUDIENCE: --started going to various color schemes, and that they didn't do too much with the earlier heavyweight cars. But then after World War II, the railroads went crazy buying new equipment and all kinds of interesting designs on the interior for the 20th Century Limited, the '30s edition and the late '40s edition, and Broadway Limited. So you'll see perhaps some parallels there with what was going on in the auto industry.
- [00:54:32.99] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Yes.
- [00:54:33.45] AUDIENCE: And I thought it was also kind of ironic there on the table. That cosmetics case is actually called a train case. I had one hit me on the head once in the New York Central. Fell off the luggage rack.
- [00:54:52.34] AUDIENCE: I have another thought from the standpoint of the early electric. When you look at the old Saturday Evening Post ads, which, of course, ran back when electrics were very popular, they all showed women getting into the cars. And, of course, the women were in their finery, with very tall hats.
- [00:55:14.65] And the cars, which were often referred to as phone booth-style, followed the shape that was required for women to enjoy riding in a car, or actually in the case of the women with the electrics, driving the cars, because they were so easy and so quiet and so clean. Doctors also liked them for the same reason.
- [00:55:37.21] But as time went along from the '10s into the '20s, cars typically begin to get a little shorter. I had one that went back for rebuild, and it was shortened four inches. It didn't need to be as tall. Now, I don't know whether it was shortened because women's styles changed--
- [00:55:59.22] VICTORIA MOBLEY: Skirts got shorter.
- [00:56:00.13] AUDIENCE: --and they didn't wear the tall hats. Or whether all of a sudden cars moved from being in barns to being in garages, which may not have been as tall as the earlier structures.
- [00:56:14.00] But then the Saturday Evening Post started to show women driving the gasoline cars. And all their early ads then focused on the woman, their big thing about the new cars with the electric starter, and then focused on the fact that women could drive these cars. And the ads, you would see more women.
- [00:56:36.52] I think typically in that period you'd see more women involved with the ads for the cars until you got into the very sporty ones, where then you'd see men with their scarf flying off in the distance, and they're driving off across country in the very high-speed vehicles. But other than that, the women were the ones that seemed to propel, at least from the advertising standpoint, the shape of what the cars were.
- [00:57:03.04] And I think maybe men didn't want to admit it, but maybe the women were really driving more of the car configuration than we think.
- [00:57:16.11] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Oh, absolutely. You can imagine-- and as I'm sure that you're very familiar with, you might be the breadwinner, but you don't sign the checks. Am I right?
- [00:57:28.43] And certainly when it was made comfortable for the lady to be involved in an automobile, not just okaying the purchase but to feel comfortable in it and go out in the car, that must have been quite the treat back in the '20s, and of course in the '30s.
- [00:57:49.03] CECILE DUNHAM: We have time for just a couple of more questions.
- [00:57:50.85] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: Couple more questions, OK. Your name, sir?
- [00:57:57.73] AUDIENCE: Aren't we all anonymous to be folded and--
- [00:57:59.68] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: If we want to be. It's OK.
- [00:58:01.45] AUDIENCE: No, you just surprised me there. One thing the gentleman was speaking of was the aerodynamic trend coming from the administrators in the automobile industry to lower the height of the automobiles. And which I think they've gone to quite an extreme now, because you have to squat to get in the car and bump your head on the roof line to get in. Which I preferably as a consumer choose not to do, if I could.
- [00:58:34.32] But question. Does anybody have an organizational chart for American Motors?
- [00:58:41.46] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: I happen to have one of the original ones, but a date that it puts all of the vehicles or companies and corporations that Chrysler began with, or became part of their corporation.
- [00:58:55.13] AUDIENCE: No, American Motors.
- [00:58:56.20] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: But American Motors, that goes way back, Rambler, Charlie Nash. Charlie Nash worked for Buick and then started his own company, Nash. Rambler, these were people that started making bicycles, and the bicycles were called ramblers. And then they produced a car called the Rambler. And that's where that started. Nash, Rambler, and a number of other companies came under one roof as AMC.
- [00:59:24.67] And then, of course, that was sold, just to be brief on it. And then that was purchased by Chrysler Corporation. They wanted the Jeep.
- [00:59:31.26] AUDIENCE: Are you familiar with North in Ypsilanti? And before that--
- [00:59:35.80] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: John Willys North who started the Willys vehicle and the Overland, yes.
- [00:59:40.53] AUDIENCE: Yeah. And Pope before that as well.
- [00:59:43.68] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: All part of that that kind of went into the big machine that became Chrysler, what it is today, what's left. But they all fell under that umbrella, and became part of AMC. But I do have that organizational chart that shows all of them and how they melded in, yes.
- [01:00:00.80] AUDIENCE: Well, I definitely want to get a copy of that from you.
- [01:00:06.96] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: One more, if anyone has one more question.
- [01:00:13.39] AUDIENCE: When I talked to my uncle a while ago, I was interested in how he experienced 1948. And one of the things he remembered was the fact that in 1948, cars were just starting to come on board. And basically it was like you got on a waiting list to buy your car. Can you elaborate on some of that, or how it came from--
- [01:00:36.69] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: What happened there was really very simple. You had cars being produced before the war, just like before World War I, and then World War II came about. And in 1942, all production stopped, and it went to war production.
- [01:00:52.39] The automobile manufacturers went back into production in 1945, literally using 1942 vehicles with minor changes, if any at all. And to ramp up production took time. And yes, you'd be put on a waiting list to get the car, and people were paying more than what the asking price was. Hence what then became the window sticker, or the Monroney label that Congress stepped into.
- [01:01:25.14] And by the way, one other thing. When you talk about the height of cars, I like large cars myself, even though I've got a Corvette and some big Buicks, station wagons that I drive. But a lot of things happened when different types of manufacturing of steel allowed the cars to change height, size, dimensions. And when General Motors went from a wood-framed body with steel over it to a steel car and the turret top, it allowed the styling and build of cars to change.
- [01:01:57.34] Plus, the people that were designing them. There was one man that literally-- and I'm sorry, I don't remember his name right now. But in the production of the General Motors cars, they were seeing the step up from Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac with slightly different body styles or designs or dimensions.
- [01:02:17.43] They managed to bring it under one roof to literally make the bodies pretty much the same, so they'd just have to put different fenders or different items on the cars to literally change them. Saved General Motors hundreds of millions of dollars and kept them in production.
- [01:02:33.99] CECILE DUNHAM: Thank you very much, but we're out of time tonight.
- [01:02:36.86] JOHN JOSEPH JENDZA: We'd like to thank everybody for coming out. We enjoy it. We enjoy coming out and giving little presentations on what the automobile is and the different facets of it.
- [01:02:48.66] I've got to apologize to our gentleman that is handling all of the taping of this where I step away from a microphone, and I know you didn't get that on there. But this will be shown, I guess, in some other areas too, and we're very grateful for that. Thank you so much for coming out. Appreciate it.
- [01:03:06.68] [APPLAUSE]
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- [01:03:10.88] [MUSIC PLAYING]
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Media
July 12, 2012 at the Downtown Library: Multi-Purpose Room
Length: 1:03:00
Copyright: Creative Commons (Attribution, Non-Commercial, Share-alike)
Rights Held by: Ann Arbor District Library
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