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Legacies Project Oral History: Lois Zimmerman

When: 2020

Lois (née Milton) Zimmerman was born in 1923 near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She graduated from high school in Pittsfield, Massachusetts, and earned a BA degree from Lesley College, a teacher training college in Cambridge, Massachusetts. During her time in Cambridge, she met her husband who was training to become a chaplain in the army. Their oldest child Donnie died of polio at age seven; they had four other children. She was a kindergarten teacher for many years, including during the era of school desegregation in Indianapolis, Indiana. She also enjoyed leading outdoor educational programming.

Lois Zimmerman was interviewed by students from Skyline High School in Ann Arbor as part of the Legacies Project.

Transcript

  • [00:00:11.06] SPEAKER 1: I'm going to first ask you some simple questions. And they might jog some memories. But just keep them brief and short, and we'll come back to them later. Please say and spell your name.
  • [00:00:22.38] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Lois, L-O-I-S, Zimmerman, Z-I-M-M-E-R-M-A-N.
  • [00:00:29.81] SPEAKER 1: What is your date of birth, including the year? And how old are you?
  • [00:00:33.65] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: 7/16/23, 92.
  • [00:00:39.20] SPEAKER 1: How would you describe your ethnic background?
  • [00:00:41.63] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: My what background?
  • [00:00:43.50] SPEAKER 1: Ethnic.
  • [00:00:45.17] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: English, Scottish.
  • [00:00:48.66] SPEAKER 1: What is your religious affiliation?
  • [00:00:50.66] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Unitarian Universalist.
  • [00:00:53.54] SPEAKER 1: What is the highest level of formal education that you completed?
  • [00:00:57.02] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Master's degree in Elementary Ed, or Early Childhood.
  • [00:01:03.53] SPEAKER 1: What is your marital status?
  • [00:01:05.45] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Divorced.
  • [00:01:07.28] SPEAKER 1: How many children do you have?
  • [00:01:08.63] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Four living, and one died.
  • [00:01:11.63] SPEAKER 1: How many siblings do you have?
  • [00:01:13.19] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I have three living and one dead.
  • [00:01:16.34] SPEAKER 1: And what would you consider your primary occupation?
  • [00:01:19.58] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Kindergarten teacher.
  • [00:01:23.70] SPEAKER 1: Now we're going to begin the first part of our interview.
  • [00:01:26.64] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Can you speak just a little louder?
  • [00:01:28.31] SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Now we're going to begin the first part of our interview.
  • [00:01:33.00] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: All right.
  • [00:01:33.78] SPEAKER 1: And we're going to talk about your family history. Do you know any stories about your family name?
  • [00:01:42.08] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: My family name. My maiden name was Milton. And it's a very English name. John Milton, the poet wasn't necessarily a relative. But he was an English. And that's the main part.
  • [00:01:59.65] SPEAKER 1: Are there any naming traditions in your family?
  • [00:02:01.78] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: What kind of traditions? I'm sorry, I'm having a little trouble hearing you.
  • [00:02:04.49] SPEAKER 1: That's OK. Are there any naming traditions in your family?
  • [00:02:07.63] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Yes. In my generation, you often were named for your mother or your father or a close relative. And I was named for my mother who was also Lois. And then my brother was the third-- [? William ?] [? Hammond ?] [? Milton ?] [? III ?] in that part of the family.
  • [00:02:26.74] SPEAKER 1: Why did your ancestors leave to come to the United States, if you know?
  • [00:02:32.34] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I really don't know the answer to that. I know I have a history of one of my uncles sailing over here from England. And someone in the family helped establish San Francisco and the way it's laid out. But I don't know the details.
  • [00:02:49.09] SPEAKER 1: Do you know any stories about how your family came to the United States at all?
  • [00:02:54.27] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I know more about my former husband's family than I do about mine. So I don't know very much.
  • [00:03:00.60] SPEAKER 1: Oh. So do you know how did they make their living or anything? Maybe your parents or your grandparents.
  • [00:03:14.96] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, both parents were born in the United States. Do you want to know how they made their living? Or the ones before that. I don't know the ones that came over. I do know the uncle that laid out San Francisco.
  • [00:03:31.70] SPEAKER 1: OK. We will go on to family history. We just didn't [INAUDIBLE].
  • [00:03:45.11]
  • [00:03:47.90] What stories have come through your parents or grandparents? The ship one-- is that one of the only stories that you know? Have your parents or your grandparents told you or anything?
  • [00:04:01.16] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Yes. I know that my grandmother on my mother's side, her brother was the first lawyer for the General Electric Company ever in Schenectady, New York. And he was also my godfather. So I knew him fairly well.
  • [00:04:19.85] My grandfather on the other side of the family was an Episcopalian minister for many, many years in North Carolina. And I don't think of anything else right now.
  • [00:04:36.83] SPEAKER 1: Do you know of any courtship stories on how your parents or grandparents got married or anything?
  • [00:04:42.95] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, I know my parents met in college. My mother was in New York State. And they met while they were both in college. And I don't know about going back further. I don't know how any grandparents met.
  • [00:05:06.68] SPEAKER 1: Now we are going to move on to the earliest memories of childhood. This is from your childhood up until you began attending school. So since when you were quite young. Where did you grow up? And what are your strongest memories of that place?
  • [00:05:28.51] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, I grew up outside of Philadelphia on the Main Line. But I was born in central New York state. And the family lived in Schenectady. And my earliest memories-- I was the oldest of four. So I know that I don't have memories of brothers and sisters before then.
  • [00:05:50.23] I know that I was supposed to be a boy. And my mother and my grandmother were very disappointed when I wasn't. So I was told that I was called "Bill," which is what they wanted the boy to be for a while after I was born, because everyone was so sure I was going to be a boy. So that was kind of an unwanted feeling. And I was not a very happy baby, apparently. And then Bill finally came when I was two, so they were happy.
  • [00:06:21.70] I remember just some isolated things. I remember when my brother Peter was born, who was the next one, I had something. I had chicken pox or German measles-- things that children don't get these days very much. And I tiptoed into-- or "sneaked" it is probably more correct-- into his room where he was in a crib, because I had to see him. And here I was with this disease, and I can see myself now, leaning over the crib and looking at this baby, Peter. And I loved the name Peter. And I was so happy that he was a Peter. And I have a Peter as a son now.
  • [00:07:04.15] And I remember going down to North Carolina where my father's parents live. And I saw my first fire engine. And I could see myself on the porch when the fire engine went by.
  • [00:07:19.75] SPEAKER 1: What city did you grow up in?
  • [00:07:22.24] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well it was the Main Line of Philadelphia-- Wayne, Pennsylvania.
  • [00:07:29.62] SPEAKER 1: How did your family come to live there?
  • [00:07:31.96] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: My father worked for General Electric. And he was transferred from Schenectady, New York, to Philadelphia. And so we went along.
  • [00:07:42.05] SPEAKER 1: And what was your house like?
  • [00:07:44.04] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Oh, we lived in several houses. There were four of us-- me and then two brothers and a sister. And every time another one was born, my parents wanted us each to have our own room. So we moved to another house. And they always rented the houses. So we lived in different houses.
  • [00:08:06.14] SPEAKER 1: And so you said that there was four children. So you have six people in your family?
  • [00:08:12.96] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Yeah. Four of us and my parents, yes.
  • [00:08:14.85] SPEAKER 1: OK, so six.
  • [00:08:16.81] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: And always two dogs and two cats.
  • [00:08:18.85] SPEAKER 1: OK. Were any different languages spoken around?
  • [00:08:23.87] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No.
  • [00:08:27.30] SPEAKER 1: What was your family like when you were a child?
  • [00:08:30.66] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, we were typical of that age, which was long before your age. The father earned the money. Mother raised the children. She was always home. And so I mean, he was a very loving father. But he didn't do much of the child raising.
  • [00:08:51.78] SPEAKER 1: And you said that your father worked at--
  • [00:08:55.47] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: General Electric.
  • [00:08:56.02] SPEAKER 1: --General Electric, OK. And your mother was a stay-at-home mom. What was your typical day like for you in your preschool years, if you remember?
  • [00:09:10.60] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I really don't remember. I don't remember much before starting to kindergarten.
  • [00:09:19.11] SPEAKER 1: That's OK. Do you remember what you did for fun when you were little? Any activities or anything? Any games that you played with your brothers and sisters?
  • [00:09:31.04] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I wasn't a doll player. I didn't play with dolls. And when I may have been a little older, I remember roller skating and riding my bike, because we always had sidewalks.
  • [00:09:47.46] SPEAKER 1: So you didn't have any favorite toys or games or books or anything?
  • [00:09:51.87] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Oh, books. I was a very book person. My mother read to us all the time. My favorite books were the Winnie the Pooh, AA Milne. Well, this will come up later, but I even visited it in England when I was there, where Christopher Robin grew up. And she read to us a lot. Every time we moved, she would sit and read different Winnie the Pooh stories to us while we packed china and books and silver and all sorts of stuff.
  • [00:10:25.21] SPEAKER 1: Do you remember any special days or events that happened when you were younger with your family or anything?
  • [00:10:31.28] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No, I really don't remember anything special. Christmas, my grandparents always sent a big box with gifts. And so it was exciting to wait and see what was in that. I don't remember anything. Special birthdays, of course, were always celebrated. But I don't remember anything specific.
  • [00:11:15.54] SPEAKER 1: Now we're going to discuss your youth, so like your middle age of childhood and how you were as a young child and stuff and your school attendance.
  • [00:11:24.34] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Remember to speak a little louder, please.
  • [00:11:26.31] SPEAKER 1: OK. Did you go to preschool?
  • [00:11:30.36] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No. I did go to kindergarten, which is sort of unusual in those days that they had kindergarten. Do you want to know something about that?
  • [00:11:40.89] SPEAKER 1: Yeah, sure.
  • [00:11:42.00] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I think I told you this the other day, but I'll tell you again. I was left-handed, and my mother refused to let me be changed to right-handed. And I remember standing in front of the counter in the principal's office, which was way above my head, and my mother saying in no uncertain terms, you are not to change this child to right-handed. And they never did. Although my penmanship-- you don't have penmanship teachers anymore-- but she never liked me because she couldn't change me to right-handed.
  • [00:12:18.63] I remembered some things in kindergarten.
  • [00:12:20.79] SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
  • [00:12:21.24] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Do you want me to tell you some of them?
  • [00:12:23.08] SPEAKER 1: Of course, yes.
  • [00:12:23.88] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I remember an-- and we just call them "Indians" in those days-- came in. And he was in full dress. And he had us make a long line. And then we moved around in circles so that we just twisted around and we were in a spiral. And I remember that so well. I remember making that spiral and then unwinding.
  • [00:12:47.73] And I also remember that I never got chosen. That was sad. I don't know why, but I didn't get chosen-- at least maybe not first for anything. And my kindergarten teacher's name was Miss Bradley. And that's all I remember at the moment.
  • [00:13:07.96] SPEAKER 1: Did you go to elementary school?
  • [00:13:09.92] [DOOR SHUTS]
  • [00:13:10.36] Closet.
  • [00:13:13.20] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I started in kindergarten and went till I was a junior in high school in the same school on the Main Line outside of Philadelphia. So I went right to first grade. I could already read. I was reading when I was in kindergarten.
  • [00:13:29.92] And so I remember going out to recess. And this was the wrong thing to do. The teachers having other teachers come over and listen to me read while I was supposed to be able to be playing. And I was standing there, reading. I can picture it now, the teachers gathered around me on the playground. But I loved reading. And I still do.
  • [00:13:58.03] SPEAKER 1: Now we're going to move on to the popular culture from when you were a child. Do you remember the music? And if you do, could you describe it?
  • [00:14:10.15] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: We were not a music-loving family. My parents never played music. And my music would have mainly been the children's songs that I would be learning in school. And so I can't tell you anything about the music. It seemed like there's an awful lot I can't tell you about.
  • [00:14:32.71] SPEAKER 1: Do you recall any of the popular clothing or hair styles of the time?
  • [00:14:37.42] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Now what age are we talking about?
  • [00:14:39.31] SPEAKER 1: When you were between the ages of 5 and 10.
  • [00:14:43.79] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, pigtails. All the girls wore pigtails. I had pigtails. I had a friend who is still living who used to copy everything I did. And I used to be very unhappy about it. My mother said, it's all right. Now it would be you'd say that it's the sincerest form of flattery to have somebody imitate you. But I hated it. I doubt if she even knows or remembers it.
  • [00:15:12.16] And of course, girls could only wear a skirt. I mean, I didn't start wearing pants till I was teaching. That just wasn't done. And I don't remember anything else in particular.
  • [00:15:31.90] SPEAKER 1: OK. Do you remember any slang terms or phrases or words that aren't common today?
  • [00:15:41.10] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Not really.
  • [00:15:44.84] SPEAKER 1: Now we're going to move on to the routine and special activities. So between the ages of 5 and 10, what was your typical day like, if you remember?
  • [00:15:57.33] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: At home or at school?
  • [00:15:58.92] SPEAKER 1: Both.
  • [00:16:02.60] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, I rode the bus to school. I know that. And in school, I would just follow along whatever the teacher said to do. We only had one teacher, didn't move to different teachers. And I don't even remember if special teachers came in or whether the teacher had to do everything. I had to do everything when I was first teaching.
  • [00:16:27.52] And at home, we always ate together all three meals, except our father would be at work. So we'd get up and have breakfast together. And always had to make my bed and clean up my room.
  • [00:16:43.43] And I had neighbors. I'd play with them. We'd play outside, skating or riding our bikes or playing hopscotch. And that's about what I remember now at that young age.
  • [00:17:05.12] Of course, I had my brother at that point. And he and I didn't really get along very well. I guess I still resented him from the fact that I was supposed to be him.
  • [00:17:20.50] And then it four years later that my brother Peter came along. I would have been 10 then. And he was my very favorite. And he still is. Well, my other brother, the Bill that finally showed up, died a couple of years ago, so. And then my younger sister, she was the cute one-- curly hair. And everybody loved her, and she was so sweet. Whereas I was not quite that [CHUCKLES] attractive.
  • [00:17:55.32] SPEAKER 1: OK. Now we're going to talk about folkways and family life. Did your family have any special sayings or expressions when you were at this age?
  • [00:18:06.05] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Oh, yes. And then they come up every once in a while. But I can't take them off the top of my head. If I think of them, I'll tell you later.
  • [00:18:18.31] SPEAKER 1: OK.
  • [00:18:20.33] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, there was one that came up yesterday. I was playing bridge with some friends. And one of the women took a bite of something and choked a little bit on it. And she said, that went down my wrong throat. And I looked at her, and I said, that's what my family always used to say. And I haven't heard that in years. I don't know what people say. And I don't remember what people say now. But that was one. And I know there were lots of others.
  • [00:18:51.93] SPEAKER 1: Any changes in your family life during your school years?
  • [00:18:56.79] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Just the younger brothers and sisters being born and moving-- and, of course, pets dying. That's always traumatic. But then we always got more.
  • [00:19:11.04] SPEAKER 1: Which holidays did your family celebrate?
  • [00:19:16.11] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Pretty much all the standard ones-- Christmas, birthdays, Thanksgiving, Halloween-- [COUGHS] excuse me-- Easter. I don't remember any others. I'm sure there are some. But I don't remember them. Did I say birthdays?
  • [00:19:46.33] SPEAKER 1: Do you remember any special food traditions that you guys would have on these holidays or any other time?
  • [00:19:52.06] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, Sunday dinners-- we would all would go to church on Sunday and come back and have a big dinner, which was always either a roast beef or leg of lamb. And I don't know. There's just nothing really traditional. Just plain American food. [CHUCKLES]
  • [00:20:18.94]
  • [00:20:21.13] SPEAKER 1: When you think back on your school years, do you remember any important social or historical events that affected your family or you in any way?
  • [00:20:32.69] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No. Still before I was 10 or younger?
  • [00:20:36.27] SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
  • [00:20:39.29] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No, I really don't.
  • [00:20:41.24] SPEAKER 1: How about when you were older? Like 10 to 17?
  • [00:20:45.97] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: 10 to what?
  • [00:20:46.90] SPEAKER 1: 17 or 18?
  • [00:20:50.22] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: [? I ?] [? need you ?] [? to ?] read the question again for me.
  • [00:20:52.32] SPEAKER 1: Yup. When thinking back on your school years, do you remember any important social or historical events that affected you or your family?
  • [00:21:03.33] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No. Most things happened when I was in college. I really can't remember anything.
  • [00:21:21.58] SPEAKER 1: We're going to move on to adulthood and marriage and your family life now.
  • [00:21:26.92] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: So we're skipping all my teen years and my college years?
  • [00:21:31.00] SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Pause.
  • [00:21:41.60] When you were between the ages of 10 and 17 or 18, do you remember the popular music of this time?
  • [00:21:49.28] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, the big band sounds were coming in. And I was going to dancing school. And so I loved the big band sounds, which I'm sure you've heard. They're just not your music [CHUCKLES] this day and age. And that was the big thing. As I say, we didn't listen to music at home. So I had nothing else except that.
  • [00:22:20.14] SPEAKER 1: And the big band music, I assume that they had a certain dance [INAUDIBLE]?
  • [00:22:25.51] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No, it was mostly slow dancing. And jitterbugging started at some point in there. But that was not my thing. I liked the slow ballroom dancing. I love to dance.
  • [00:22:41.38] SPEAKER 1: Do you remember the popular clothing or hairstyles of this time?
  • [00:22:48.73] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, I had started getting permanents when I was in sixth grade. And I don't know that mine was popular. It was pretty awful. And the clothing-- we still were in skirts-- dirndl, large, round, flowing skirts. Dirndl skirts-- you'll have to look that up if you don't know what it means. And I can't remember what the shoes are called-- the ones that were white with a brown strip across them.
  • [00:23:23.39] SPEAKER 1: Saddle shoes?
  • [00:23:23.68] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: What?
  • [00:23:24.30] SPEAKER 1: Saddle shoes?
  • [00:23:24.99] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Saddle shoes. [INAUDIBLE] penny loafers. Of course, socks. We didn't wear-- even dress up-- I'm sure I didn't wear nylons at that point. I must have when I was in upper high school. I don't remember that.
  • [00:23:47.59] SPEAKER 1: Did you remember any slang terms or phrases or words that were used that aren't common today?
  • [00:23:54.68] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No, I really wasn't into a lot of slang. I'm sure I used it. And I'm sure there's some. I just don't remember it.
  • [00:24:04.36] SPEAKER 1: What was your typical day like for you when you were a teenager?
  • [00:24:12.33] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, when it was winter, we lived-- oh no, we haven't moved yet. That was older. Well, and I'll go to that. When I was a junior in high school, we moved to Western Massachusetts. My father was transferred with his GE job.
  • [00:24:32.46] And we lived out just at the edge of town. And when it was snowy, we would get our cross-country skis on and just go out of the back door and just ski and ski and ski. That was so much fun.
  • [00:24:50.98] I walked to school, which was a fair distance. But that was OK. And rode bikes. And let's see, I ought to get back before we moved to Pittsfield. It was kind of a blow when we heard that we were going to move. But in those days, you went where the father's work. There was no question.
  • [00:25:19.29] And my mother, the only time she ever worked was-- now I'm going back because I'm remembering something earlier-- when I started kindergarten, she started a preschool for my brother Bill and friends and neighbors. I don't even know whether anybody paid anything. And I would come home from kindergarten and have Graham crackers and milk with them. That was a real treat.
  • [00:25:49.20] And in high school, a typical day-- I'm still typical day-ing-- well, I just go to school. I was in some after-school clubs. I played hockey-- field hockey. And I enjoyed classes like French. And I didn't enjoy math. I didn't enjoy history.
  • [00:26:23.50] One thing, I guess it would have been about the earliest part of this stage, I had a geography-- which you don't have now, it's all under social studies-- a geography teacher who would assign us a paragraph to read. And then she would sit there. And she had candy in her desk drawer. And she'd sit there and nibble on this candy while we were reading.
  • [00:26:51.46] Then she'd have us close our books. And she would just throw questions at us. And to this day, I don't like history or geography because of the way she taught it. I just don't like it at all.
  • [00:27:05.56] And I'm kind of moving around now and remembering other things. But moving to Pittsfield was very different because then I had a year and a half there. Yes, a year and a half of school there.
  • [00:27:24.76] [CLATTERING]
  • [00:27:29.97] SPEAKER 1: Now we're going to move on to the adulthood and marriage and family life. And these questions are going to cover pretty much from after you graduated high school to now. And they're going to be about your education, your labor, your family, and children, and retirement.
  • [00:27:53.18] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Can I go back to one story I remember about something that happened when I was young?
  • [00:27:58.28] SPEAKER 1: Yeah, sure.
  • [00:27:59.01] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: My brother Bill and I took a pack of cigarettes. And at that point, we lived in a house where there was a golf course not far from where we were. And we could walk out. We took this pack of cigarettes to the whatever hole that was and sat on the bench and just started smoking them.
  • [00:28:20.90] And my mother caught us. And she took us back to the house, put us in the bathtub, gave us each a pack of cigarettes and made us smoke the whole thing. (CHUCKLING) To this day, I have never had the slightest desire to smoke a cigarette. That was awful. But I can remember that well. I don't know where that fits in. But I was probably about 8 or 9 or 10.
  • [00:28:49.62] OK, now I can grow up.
  • [00:28:52.14] SPEAKER 1: [CHUCKLES]
  • [00:28:54.70] So after you finished high school, where did you live?
  • [00:28:59.42] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: We were in Pittsfield, Massachusetts, when I graduated from high school.
  • [00:29:11.66] SPEAKER 1: Now on to family life. Could you tell me a little bit about your married and your family life?
  • [00:29:19.35] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: My what?
  • [00:29:20.07] SPEAKER 1: You're married and your family life? So like, when and where did you meet your spouse and stuff like that.
  • [00:29:30.44] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Nothing about my college years?
  • [00:29:33.48] SPEAKER 1: Apparently not. Nothing really.
  • [00:29:37.66] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I mean, that's all right. But that skips a whole bunch of my life.
  • [00:29:41.75] SPEAKER 1: Oh, boy. [INAUDIBLE]
  • [00:29:47.16] Well, if you would add anything about your college life-- any stories or memories?
  • [00:29:50.50] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, we lived in Pittsfield when I graduated from high school. And I knew I wanted to be a teacher. I had known that since the preschool days when I was in kindergarten and my mother had that little preschool. I knew that I was going to teach.
  • [00:30:08.29] But my family insisted I had to go to an Ivy League women's college where I would have had to go further more years to do the teaching. So I went to Connecticut, which is now called Connecticut College-- then it was Connecticut College for Women-- in New London, Connecticut.
  • [00:30:29.56] And I hated it. So I deliberately failed a class in government. And my parents then realized-- oh, and another point while I was there. Even though they had plenty of money, they gave me a very small allowance. And I just couldn't do much that the other girls in my dorm were doing. So I took a job waiting tables in a neighboring dorm. Well, that horrified my parents. So they raised the allowance. And I only waited tables two or three times, I think.
  • [00:31:13.88] So then I changed from Connecticut. I finished that year. And I went to Lesley College, which is a teacher training college in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And that's where I got my bachelor's degree in elementary ed. Then I didn't get my master's degree until-- at that time, I was married and teaching in Kansas. And they put through a law that in order to teach, you had to have a master's degree. So I went back and got my master's degree in early childhood.
  • [00:31:56.68] And I loved Lesley. And it was a very small college at that time. Now it's become a very-- in fact, I graduated in the first class that had a four-year degree, a bachelor's degree. Before then, it had been a junior college, which now are called community colleges.
  • [00:32:14.86] And I had a lot of fun when I had to do my student teaching, because I would go to different places in Boston, riding the trolley and the subway and doing my student teaching. That was fun.
  • [00:32:31.43] And that was where I met my husband. We were right across the road, literally, from the Harvard campus. And the building right next to us was where the chaplain's training took place for the Air Force. And my husband was a Presbyterian minister. And he was going to be a chaplain in the Air Force.
  • [00:32:56.96] And one night, a group of us from Lesley went to-- I think it was a Methodist Church. And I was Episcopalian. My husband was Presbyterian. And we met at that Methodist Church. And this whole group walked home together. And soon thereafter, he called me. And we went to a musical performance of Porgy and Bess. I don't I don't know if you've ever heard of that. It's a wonderful, wonderful program.
  • [00:33:30.35] And then it went on from there. He graduated. And he ended up in Guam during the Second World War, which started while I was there at Lesley. How long do you want me to keep going with this?
  • [00:33:56.68] SPEAKER 1: Well, if you could tell me what it was like when you guys were dating and how your engagement and your wedding was?
  • [00:34:02.82] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, we didn't do much dating because he was in the chaplain school. In fact, we really didn't know each other as well as we-- would have been better if we'd known each other better. I did go out. He went right from there to Tobyhanna, Pennsylvania. No idea where it is now. And I went to visit him there a couple of times.
  • [00:34:29.76] And then he went to Kansas. He was from Kansas. He was a Middle Westerner to begin with. And so dating was certainly not much of a thing. And I don't remember when we became engaged. I know he kissed me the first time on the steps of the Harvard Library. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:34:55.41] And then most of our what we called "courting" then was done through mail. I mean, and of course we didn't have email or anything like that. So it was all written. And not a lot of phoning, because people just didn't use phones like they do now.
  • [00:35:22.64] SPEAKER 1: Do you remember your wedding?
  • [00:35:24.53] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: My wedding was at home because my sister, Anne, the youngest one of the four of us, had had polio. And after she got out of the hospital, she had to stay in her room. And so the doctor said she could come downstairs for the first time for the wedding. But she couldn't go to the church. So we had the wedding in our home.
  • [00:35:51.71] And our wedding rehearsal was Halloween because we were married on the 1st of November. So we spent a lot of the rehearsal time with trick-or-treaters coming to the front door.
  • [00:36:03.95] And it was a very small wedding because it was during the war. And my husband's best man was his brother-in-law who was in the Navy. And he was able to come up for the wedding. And my maid of honor was my best friend from college. But it was very small-- a very small wedding.
  • [00:36:28.19] And then we honeymooned in a cabin that some business friend of my father's knew of on the Appalachian Trail. And that was kind of fun, to be there. And my brother Peter came along with us the first few days of the honeymoon. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:36:51.31] SPEAKER 1: OK. Now we're going to move on to your children. Could you tell me about your children and what life was like when they were young and living at the house.
  • [00:37:02.16] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, Donnie was born when his father was overseas. So when Don came back from overseas, Donnie was nine months old. So I was caught in the middle of two personalities-- I'll call them that-- who wanted all of me. Donnie had been used to me for nine months with nobody else. Well, I was living with my parents. But that is a little different.
  • [00:37:31.64] And Don, when he left, we didn't have Donnie. So we had a really difficult time adjusting to that. And he and Donnie never were really close. Donnie's the one that died of polio when he was 7 and 1/2. And he-- how much do you want me to tell you about him?
  • [00:38:02.80] SPEAKER 1: As much as you'd like.
  • [00:38:08.19] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Don was out of the service, obviously, when he came back. And he decided he wanted to go on for his PhD in rural sociology. So we moved to New Jersey. I've lived in a lot of states. And he went to Drew University there and worked on his PhD. And Donnie started kindergarten. And then I don't know where I was going from there. Get me back on track. [CHUCKLES]
  • [00:38:47.54] SPEAKER 1: You can continue about Donnie and his childhood.
  • [00:38:52.31] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Yes, he went to kindergarten. And I remember he took his lunch. It was an all-day kindergarten, which was amazing in those days. And he'd have to take his lunch. And [LAUGHS] I remember, in order to get him to drink his milk-- and they didn't have it at school like they do now, he would take it in a thermos-- I would color at different colors. And one time, it spilled. And I remember the teacher telling me, it's blue milk spilling all over the floor. It was kind of amazing.
  • [00:39:25.34] But he loved kindergarten. And then, well, I can take him on up. We moved from Whippany. We moved out to Kansas. We lived in Kansas, Indiana, Illinois, and somewhere else that I'm missing right now.
  • [00:39:59.33] And my husband had a church there. He got his PhD in rural sociology. And he was working with small churches in the Midwest, which is why we moved a lot. He was trying to help them be more-- well, I'm going to say "efficient." That's not a good way to describe a church, but.
  • [00:40:21.78] And then when we were in McPherson, Kansas, that's where Donnie got polio. And he got sick on Tuesday and died on Friday. So it didn't take very long to finish his life. And that was that.
  • [00:40:44.81] And then Peter came when Donnie was 2 and 1/2. Again, the "Peter"-- the name I like best of male names. He and Kathy, who was next, had a really hard time when Donnie died because their big brother was gone. And that was very difficult for them.
  • [00:41:09.29] But Peter, he's brilliant and fairly quiet. He's into stamp collecting, photography. He wasn't into sports. And one little town we lived in had something like 10 high school students. So everybody had to play sports even if you were no good and didn't want to do it. And he had a fairly difficult time there.
  • [00:41:44.37] Now, he went on the cruise with me last week to France. It was really nice to have him along. He went from Spanish major, went into the Air Force, was in Key West for four years listening to Cuban pilots and translating what they were talking about. Key West sounds great. But four years there was not a lot of fun.
  • [00:42:12.94] And then he came out. He didn't want anything more to do with Spanish. And he was always a good photographer. So he went to Southern Illinois University, majored in photography, met his wife there, who is also a photographer.
  • [00:42:27.54] Then he got tired of that because he wanted to do more then. He would working at a university in St. Louis. And he got tired of it and decided he wanted to work more closely with people. So he went back to school and became an optometrist. And he's just retired from that.
  • [00:42:47.34] Then Kathy was next. And of course, she was her daddy's favorite little girl. And she just grew up and was just a really, really special girl growing up. I can't think of anything specific. She also married a minister, but a little different than what I would have chosen.
  • [00:43:22.85] Then [INAUDIBLE] she also really helped with-- it was four years later after Donnie died-- Peter was five, Kathy was three-- I decided that I wanted another one. So I had Lois Anne. So that was four years later. And she got meningitis when she was just three weeks old and almost died, and took a lot. And we were up in Minnesota at the time on vacation. And am I going into too much detail?
  • [00:43:56.31] SPEAKER 1: No.
  • [00:43:56.85] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Oh, OK. And we came back down to-- I can see the house-- but I guess it was still McPherson. And I couldn't even touch her. I mean, I couldn't pick her up. I had to touch her to change her diapers. But I couldn't pick her up. I just had to hold a bottle at her face and her mouth.
  • [00:44:25.16] And what it did to her was slow her down physically. And she's been very-- not slow-slow, but it took a long time to ride a bike. She tried to play golf with her husband. She just doesn't do that kind of thing well. But it speeded her up mentally. So she was reading when she was three just on her own. And she's the one that lives near here. When I moved up here for Cohousing it was to be near her.
  • [00:45:00.98] And she met her husband. She started college at Earlham, which is in Western Indiana, and decided her second trimester of her senior year-- she was majoring in East Asian studies, had spent time in Japan on a junior year abroad.
  • [00:45:22.97] She came back, and she decided she wanted to change her major. Moved up here, had no job, no place to live, no school to go to. She found a job working in a home for developmentally disabled adults, found a little place which was an old motel on Jackson here in Ann Arbor which doesn't exist anymore. Jackson does, but not the motel.
  • [00:45:53.57] And started at Eastern and majored in psychology. And met her husband there, who also was a psych major. And they're living happily ever after. And I see quite a bit of them.
  • [00:46:12.05] And my youngest daughter, Julia-- well, just a year after Lois Anne came, I decided I needed company for her, because she was so much younger than Kathy and Peter. So Julia came along just a year and a month and a day after Lois Anne.
  • [00:46:30.59] They never got along-- never. Lois Anne, she's sort of like I am, just kind of calm. And Julia blows up, and then she gets over it. And Lois Anne and I kind of sometimes hang on to things.
  • [00:46:49.31] And they had bunk beds. And they'd be put to bed. And I'd hear, Mom, Lois Anne is kicking up the mattress! Mom, Julia won't stop singing! [LAUGHS] And they just had a very difficult time. Now they're very close. All four of my children are close to each other.
  • [00:47:11.99] And she went to Purdue and majored in hearing impaired speech therapy and got her master's degree for deaf ed. And she's still teaching in Indianapolis and loves it.
  • [00:47:40.96] SPEAKER 1: Does that conclude about your children?
  • [00:47:43.02] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: That's enough children, isn't it? [LAUGHS]
  • [00:47:45.85] SPEAKER 1: OK. Let's stop it there.
  • [00:47:48.07] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: How are we doing on time?
  • [00:47:51.43] We're not quite straight with each other. Can I turn mine a little to the left?
  • [00:47:56.43] SPEAKER 2: Yeah, go ahead.
  • [00:47:56.68] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Or will that throw it off? Is that better? Better for me.
  • [00:48:02.24] SPEAKER 1: Today we're going to be talking about your routine and special activities throughout your adulthood. And so we're going to start off with you just, tell me about your working years.
  • [00:48:15.92] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, I didn't start teaching until my son started to college, because my husband was the kind who felt that wives shouldn't have to work, which certainly is not true these days. So when Julia, my youngest, was in third grade and Peter started to college, we had to have more money.
  • [00:48:37.07] So I started teaching then. And in those days, they didn't have aides in kindergarten classes. And I had 30 children in the morning and 30 in the afternoon. And that was a real challenge.
  • [00:48:51.10] SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
  • [00:48:51.47] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: But I didn't know any better, so I just accepted it. The hardest part was parent conferences, to get 60 parent conferences in during conference time. But I loved the teaching.
  • [00:49:05.54] Then we moved, and I was in Indianapolis. And I taught the rest of my years in Indianapolis and taught kindergarten up until the last couple of years when they needed someone to do what they called a "readiness program." They were children-- mostly boys-- who were a little immature and weren't really ready for first grade. But we didn't want to make them repeat kindergarten.
  • [00:49:37.59] So we had a whole year in between kindergarten and first grade and explained to the parents that the children were not failing. They were not going to have to repeat anything the next year. It was just to help them grow up.
  • [00:49:52.61] And the parents were all very supportive of it because they knew that their children were having a difficult time in kindergarten. And that was even before these days, where now they teach reading and math in kindergarten. And we didn't do that formally like they do now. And I personally think it's wrong. But that's my own opinion.
  • [00:50:15.35] And I loved doing that. We had a program called the "Super Kids Program." And of course, each one of them was a super kid. And we just had a wonderful program. And it just really went very well.
  • [00:50:28.70] Then the busing started in Indianapolis. And so the children from the inner city of Indianapolis where bussed out to our suburb. We were just outside of the city. And it was really difficult because the children that they put in my class were having difficulty. But it was not because they were immature. It was because they had had poor schooling.
  • [00:50:56.51] And so I had two groups of children and really needed to teach them in different ways. And it was impossible since I was only one person and didn't have help.
  • [00:51:11.51] So I decided the township was not being fair to the children, especially the ones that came from the inner city. And I just wasn't going to work for a school system that was being unfair to the children. So I took early retirement.
  • [00:51:29.79] Oh, and another thing during my teaching years, we had basketball in grade school. And the teachers were expected to come and patrol the halls and sell the tickets and do things. It was not part of the contract. Well, the coach was not easy on these boys that were playing. And I thought I could hear him yelling at them. And that's just not the way to help kids learn good sportsmanship and to learn to play a game.
  • [00:52:01.25] So I refused to help. I said, it's not in my contract. And I don't approve of it. And my principal was not very happy. Some of the other teachers said, I wish I had the courage you had to say I wouldn't help. But anyway, that was my teaching years. And then, as I say, I took early retirement.
  • [00:52:22.47] SPEAKER 1: What was your typical day like during your working years?
  • [00:52:27.24] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, I always got up fairly early because I wanted to be at school early. I did a lot of my preparation after I got to school. And I was always the first teacher there.
  • [00:52:41.64] One interesting thing was that we were not allowed to wear pants to school. We had to wear dresses. Well, some of the teachers and I decided one day, we were all going to come in what then were pantsuits. And they had pants and tops that matched and went together.
  • [00:53:01.36] And since I was the first teacher into school, I was really worried that I would come that they with pants on and nobody else would have the courage to do it. But they did. And we were allowed to do it after that. But somebody had to be courageous and break the old molds.
  • [00:53:21.55] And anyway, then I would get to school. And it's sort of a typical school day. The children would come in. You want just a typical school day?
  • [00:53:35.85] SPEAKER 1: Yeah, sure.
  • [00:53:37.26] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I would always have what we call "free time" for them, or table games. They would get something from the shelf which would be a puzzle or a game or something, and go back to their place and sit down. And they could play for a certain length of time. And then put things away. They learned that when you finished with one toy, you put it away before you got another one.
  • [00:54:03.27] Then we had circle time, where we just talked about whatever fit in that particular morning, whatever the subject was. And then, it's sort of hard to remember. That was a few years ago. And then there was always some sort of a theme for the day. And we would follow through on the theme. Then they would have free play where they had different things around the room.
  • [00:54:32.52] One fun thing was that I had a housekeeping center, as most kindergartens do. And the first day of school, I took the children to walk around the room. And we talked about what each area was and how we played it it.
  • [00:54:46.38] We got to the housekeeping center, and some of the boys said, I'm not going to play in there. And I said, well, don't we need fathers in a home? And that was all I needed to say. They went in, and they played just because they were the daddies. They took care of the family. And that was fun how that worked out.
  • [00:55:09.36] Then after the free play was always milk and some sort of a treat. The parents sent treats in. And in those days, parents could send food in. By the time I finished teaching, it was against the law for safety reasons. Some kitchens weren't the kind you would want to eat something that came from them.
  • [00:55:32.95] And then we would gather together again and have music or art or something like that. And then it was time to go home. And then I'd get a few minutes to relax and have lunch. And then the next group, the afternoon class, would come in. And we'd repeat it all.
  • [00:55:49.80] SPEAKER 1: Very nice. When you were working, what did your family enjoy doing together when your kids were still at home?
  • [00:56:00.10] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Oh, we always were a family that did things together. Their dad was very consumed by his work. So he wasn't always around. But we played games. We read together. I read to them a lot before they could read as my mother did for me. And that was fun. We never went out to eat. We always ate at home. So we didn't go to restaurants. And that was before the McDonald's days.
  • [00:56:41.89] Then I don't know. We would have vacations together. But you're talking about a day at home.
  • [00:56:53.44] SPEAKER 1: Yeah. What were your personal favorite things to do for fun?
  • [00:56:59.16] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: At this point in my life?
  • [00:57:00.60] SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.
  • [00:57:01.98] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Probably doing things with the children. My husband and I did play pinochle, which was a card game-- played with groups. But most of the time, I was home enjoying being with the children.
  • [00:57:21.33] SPEAKER 1: Could you describe the popular music of this time?
  • [00:57:25.95] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, as I had mentioned last time, well, I guess it went on from big band sounds. I have never really been a lot into the music of the day. So I can't tell you more than that. With me, it would have been a lot of children's songs because of kindergarten and my own children.
  • [00:57:52.93] SPEAKER 1: What were the popular clothing or hairstyles of this time?
  • [00:57:59.62] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, it was mostly dresses for women-- not long ones, but certainly below the knee. And I know that full skirts and-- well, no, the saddle shoes were the high school. I don't remember. Certainly comfortable walking shoes. And I never did wear high heels. My husband and I were the same height. And I didn't want to be taller than he, so I always wore flat heels.
  • [00:58:31.67] And hairstyles-- well, I had gotten permanents for a number of years. And that was mostly women who had permanents, which I was very glad when I finally realized I didn't have to have them anymore.
  • [00:58:51.28] SPEAKER 1: When thinking back on your working adult life, what important social or historical events were taking place at the time? If you remember.
  • [00:59:01.69] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, let's see. The war was over while I was in college. And I'd really have to think about that because I was so tied up with my work and my children that I really wasn't that tuned in to what went on. But I know if anything like a war, I could remember that. I just really don't remember.
  • [00:59:29.61] SPEAKER 1: OK. If it crosses your mind, we can come back to it. Now we're going to focus on the work and retirement. So what was your primary field of employment?
  • [00:59:47.43] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: After retirement?
  • [00:59:49.06] SPEAKER 1: Or-- no.
  • [00:59:51.58] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I mean, I was a kindergarten teacher.
  • [00:59:56.01] SPEAKER 1: What got you interested in it?
  • [00:59:59.01] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I mentioned that last time. When I was very young and playing with a lot of children, and then when my mother had the preschool for my brother and friends, I just knew then that I wanted to be a teacher someday and wanted to work with young children.
  • [01:00:17.70] SPEAKER 1: Could you describe the steps of the process involved in your job? Well, I guess you did already do that. We'll skip that.
  • [01:00:28.32] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I don't understand.
  • [01:00:30.04] SPEAKER 1: We'll skip that question. What do you value most about what you did for your living?
  • [01:00:49.79] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, the impact that I made on some of these children. Some years ago-- I mean, in the recent past, I was briefly on Facebook and got an email or a Facebook response from a boy that I had had in kindergarten. And that was 60, 70 years ago. And he mentioned how much he remembered about kindergarten.
  • [01:01:22.70] And also, after I had retired, the seniors in the school system voted on teachers that had made the most impact in their life and sent me a little alarm clock. And that was really-- well, I was with my daughter Julia at the time. And we were both so pleased.
  • [01:01:49.97] I mean, when you think now you all are juniors, if you think back-- whoops, I'm looking at all three of you-- [CHUCKLES] if you look back on your earlier days what teachers made the most impact, I don't think a kindergarten teacher would come up probably as the first one. So that was a great honor. Did that answer the question?
  • [01:02:12.41] SPEAKER 1: Definitely. Do you see any big differences in your primary field from the time when you were a teacher [INAUDIBLE]?
  • [01:02:22.37] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Yes, very. Yes, I mentioned that earlier. But now they're teaching reading and arithmetic. And some children are ready for it. But the ones that are not, it's so unfair to them. I mean, and it's only because of their maturity. It's not because of their ability to learn. They're just not ready yet.
  • [01:02:41.00] It's like making a little child color in the lines. Their eye-hand coordination isn't developed yet. And they'll do it when that physical aspect of their being is ready for it. So I have strong feelings about making children do it-- exposing them to things they're not ready for.
  • [01:03:12.05] SPEAKER 1: Now we're going to move on to residence community.
  • [01:03:16.02] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: To what?
  • [01:03:16.74] SPEAKER 1: Residence community.
  • [01:03:19.10] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Different places I've lived?
  • [01:03:20.92] SPEAKER 1: I think so. Tell me about any of the moves that you made during your working years or retirement prior to where you are currently living?
  • [01:03:32.90] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Oh, well, there are a lot of them because my husband was a minister who specialized in small towns and helping churches-- helping churches. And so he would finish a job. And we'd go other places. And this is not after my retirement? You mean in my whole working years?
  • [01:04:00.77] SPEAKER 1: It can be during and after your retirement.
  • [01:04:05.27] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, we started in New Jersey where he was going to grad school and got his PhD in rural sociology. And then we moved to eastern Kansas where he-- well, all the times he's working in small churches. And I was being a mother and staying at home with the young children. And then we moved to another place in Kansas. And we moved to Illinois. We moved to Indiana. We moved to another place in Indiana. [CHUCKLES]
  • [01:04:44.58]
  • [01:04:45.02] And then when I was in Indianapolis, I was divorced. And then I took up a new life and moved to other places.
  • [01:04:56.96] SPEAKER 1: Could you tell me about those places?
  • [01:05:00.88] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I kept on teaching after my divorce. And then I made the decision that I wasn't going to teach anymore. And my parents had a summer home up in the Adirondack mountains of northern New York state. And we had all gone there for vacation almost every summer during the month of August. And I just loved it there.
  • [01:05:25.08] And my mother had died. And then my father remarried, and my stepmother died. They both died of cancer. And my father wasn't well. And so I thought, well, I'm going to go up there. And he lived in Schenectady, New York, not in the Adirondacks. And I moved up there, and he died.
  • [01:05:50.56] And so I lived up there in the mountains of the Adirondacks for five or six years. The place that they had there was a large house right on the lake. And then there was an old garage that they-- my father and brother-- had made into a guest house.
  • [01:06:11.22] And so the big house was not heated. And the Adirondacks are quite cold in the winter. So the smaller house had some heat. And I did some working on getting it warmer. But I heated with a wood stove. And I had a dog and a cat. And I just loved living up there. I would cross-country ski on the lake in the winter and took my dog out walking. He was a big black lab. And he loved running on the lake-- well, running on the ice. [CHUCKLES]
  • [01:06:46.65]
  • [01:06:47.00] And I had a kayak. So I kayaked in the lake. And my children and families would come in the summers, would come for vacations. A couple of times some of them came for Christmas. So that was a wonderful experience.
  • [01:07:06.06] And then it got to the point where the big house really needed some work done on it. And on a teacher's retirement salary, I really couldn't afford to stay there. So I sold the place and moved back to Indiana, to Indianapolis and lived there. And then I moved to Bloomington, Indiana. And then I moved here.
  • [01:07:34.56] SPEAKER 1: And how do you feel about your current living situation?
  • [01:07:38.22] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I'm very happy with it. I don't know if I have mentioned Cohousing do you. But I live in a Cohousing situation. And it's really very special.
  • [01:07:55.44] SPEAKER 1: How did family life change for you when you and/or your spouse retired and all the children left home?
  • [01:08:11.21] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I've got so many things running through my mind. Of course, we weren't together when I retired. Did you say family life?
  • [01:08:26.01] SPEAKER 1: Yes.
  • [01:08:27.06] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Because my children were then away. Peter was in the Air Force. And Kathy was married and had, at that time, one daughter. Lois Anne spent her junior year in Japan because she was majoring in East Asian studies. And Julia was at Purdue. And she was a senior at Purdue and majoring in speech therapy. So they were all away from home.
  • [01:08:55.68] And I decided that I was on my own. I didn't have to consider what somebody else thought I ought to be doing. I could do what I wanted to do. And so I joined a group. I was in Indianapolis. I joined a group called Hoosier Wilderness Adventures. And it was run by a really great man, Phil. And there were maybe 10 or 15 of us.
  • [01:09:27.74] And we would go on outdoor adventures. The first one was a walk through in Florida, in-- shoot, I can't remember now what part of Florida it was. But it was all wilderness. There were springs. We would go from spring to spring, really. That was the first thing I did.
  • [01:09:47.94] And then we went whitewater rafting. No, that was the first thing I did. I went on a Sierra Club whitewater rafting trip out in the Salmon River in Idaho. I just decided I was going to do something completely on my own. I didn't know a soul. And that was so great. It was a week just rafting and then spending the night in a campsite. And that was great.
  • [01:10:17.90] But then I joined the Hoosier Wilderness Adventure when I got back from that. And we went out to the Bob Marshall Wilderness in Idaho and backpacked. There are no vehicles allowed. There's just horses and people and bears.
  • [01:10:34.49] And we put a bear bell on my backpack. And I've kept it on all these years. I finally gave my backpack to my grandson. But I said, no bears have ever come. And I've kept the bell on it even when I lived in the city, so it kept the bears away. And I did that for a number of years, the different adventures that I had with that.
  • [01:11:05.30] SPEAKER 1: We're going to move on to more current times. So what is your typical day in the life currently?
  • [01:11:12.96] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, can I do more for the back?
  • [01:11:14.40] SPEAKER 1: Yeah, sure.
  • [01:11:15.39] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Because I've done a lot of things since then, like becoming a clown. And that was a great experience. And that started when I lived in the Adirondacks. That's when a friend and I got the idea we wanted to be clowns. And we couldn't find a clown school up there. And I wasn't just going to put a costume on and say I'm a clown.
  • [01:11:39.73] So when I moved to Indiana, to Bloomington, I found a clown school and went and learned clowning. And then I knew I didn't want to do balloon animals. I'm really afraid of balloons. I must have been frightened by a balloon when I was really little-- a balloon popping. Because I really don't like balloons at all. And I'm not a face painter. And besides, I want to interact with a group, not just one person at a time.
  • [01:12:11.85] So I decided I wanted to do magic. And the magic club there in Bloomington, who are mostly older men-- older than I at the time-- were so kind to me. And I had wonderful time learning magic and going to schools. And I still do.
  • [01:12:30.33] And I told you I'd bring you a magic trick. And I will next time-- a picture of a firefly. I have a firefly tattoo-- a real firefly on my shoulder. I can't show it to you because I've got too many layers of shirts on.
  • [01:12:46.79] And so anyway, the clowning, that was really a great thing I did. When I lived up in the Adirondacks-- tell me whatever you need-- I wanted to volunteer to do something. So I went into the county extension office. And I said, do you have anything I can do?
  • [01:13:13.17] And he said, well, there's a ship called the Clearwater that takes volunteers. And the Clearwater runs up the Hudson River from New York City up to Albany. And it's helping clean up the Hudson River, which was very, very polluted. And they take volunteers.
  • [01:13:33.80] So I said, well, I'll do it. So I went for a week. And the volunteer's job was cleaning the heads and scrubbing the deck and washing the dishes-- all the fun things. But it was such a wonderful group. And I enjoyed it so much.
  • [01:13:52.50] And I don't know if you know of Pete Seeger, who was a very famous folk singer who just died a year ago. And he was the one that was instrumental in starting this, the Clearwater. And it's a sloop that is designed like the old sloops that used to ply trade up and down the Hudson, except that they now have to have some safety things that they didn't have in those days.
  • [01:14:17.67] And so for, I don't know, six or seven years, I would volunteer. But that was the only year I had to do that because I kept going up and up the chain. I did have an assistant crew one time, learning how to be a crew. And this was after I was 50, easily. I mean, I was always the oldest person in years, not necessarily and actions or behavior or thoughts or feelings.
  • [01:14:46.11] And the last year, I was assistant educator. And I still have had contact with the woman who was the chief educator at that time. And I would go out in the morning. And I was fishing for plankton, because what we did-- we picked up schoolchildren every day. We would go up and down the Hudson and pick up schoolchildren, take them out for a sail, because it's a sloop with three sails.
  • [01:15:16.55] And they had to raise the big sail. And a lot of folksinging, because that was Pete Seeger's legacy. And that's my favorite music, is folk music-- the older folk music.
  • [01:15:29.60] And then we had stations. And the children would go to different stations-- one with the plankton, which is we examined the water under a microscope to see what the plankton looked like, the fish [INAUDIBLE].
  • [01:15:42.71] We took a net and fished to see what fish we came up with. And the kids would move around these different stations. And there was a crew person at each one. And we didn't always catch fish. We caught tin cans and plastic and all sorts of things that we were trying to help get rid of in the Hudson.
  • [01:16:04.79] And they had a turn in steering. It with steered by a tiller, a long tiller. And they could stand and steer the ship. And we would always stop for some singing. And everybody helped raise the sails. Oh, and then they learned to triangulate where we were by using maps and places on shore and to find out exactly where we were along the river. It was always a wonderful day.
  • [01:16:38.33] And then in the fall, we had a pumpkin festival. And they would come and get pumpkins and do all sorts of things. And I invented a character that I named [? "Iva ?] [? Choice." ?] And I had a great big overcoat that I got. And I sewed pockets all on the inside.
  • [01:16:58.46] And I had different things that were environmentally good. One, I had a toothbrush. I pulled out the toothbrush, and I pretended to turn the water on and just let the water run, run, run, run, run while I was pretending to brush my teeth. And then I ask the children, now, what did I do that was wrong? And a lot of them could tell, you let the water run too long. I'd say, that's right. When you brush your teeth, you should turn it on and then turn it off and not waste water.
  • [01:17:30.02] And I had a lot of fun being [? Iva ?] [? Choice. ?] And I'd say, well, I have a choice of how I live my life, and so do you. So that was a very important part of my life for several years. And I'm still a member of the Clearwater group. And I wish I could go to their meetings. But they're on the east coast, and I'm not. And those are my outdoor activities. And I'm leaving something out. But when I remember it, I'll tell you. Now, what was your next one?
  • [01:18:16.02] SPEAKER 1: What does your family enjoy doing together nowadays?
  • [01:18:20.31] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, we never get together as a whole-- well, no, I shouldn't say never-- the only times we get together as a whole group are on my birthdays that are 80, 85, 90-- things like that. Because I enjoy them separately. When you're in a great big group, you really can't enjoy everybody. And I have children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. So I want to enjoy them. So we make arrangements to see each other separately.
  • [01:18:52.30] Now, this last two weeks ago when I went to France, my son went with me. And it's the first time he and I have done anything just the two of us since he was little. I mean, because he's married, and usually his wife is with him. Or we would do things as a family. So that's interesting.
  • [01:19:16.86] My daughter Kathy and her husband are coming for Thanksgiving. And I'm going to Indianapolis to Julia's for Christmas. And my daughter who lives near here, Lois Anne. I see them fairly often.
  • [01:19:33.55] And then, I love surprises. So on my birthdays where everybody gets together, I never know what's going to happen. So that's really fun. This last one was here. Everybody came here. And we were out at-- what's the big park? Gallup Park? We were there.
  • [01:19:57.49] And Lois Anne said, Mom, turn around. And I turned around. And do you know Gemini, this music group here in town? There were Gemini standing behind me, because I loved their music. And she had arranged for them to come and perform at my birthday. So that was really exciting.
  • [01:20:19.25] SPEAKER 1: Awesome. What are your personal favorite things to do for fun?
  • [01:20:24.05] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Right now?
  • [01:20:24.68] SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.
  • [01:20:27.30] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, for fun-- [CHUCKLES]
  • [01:20:31.48]
  • [01:20:34.49] Well, I know I haven't told you about Cohousing since this interview has started. But Cohousing is an intergenerational group of people. So I live in a community from where we've got a six-week-old baby and up to me, and everything in between.
  • [01:20:53.72] And we do all the work for the place. We take care of it ourselves. And last night, I went to a meal. We have a work program. So one of the women had signed up to be the cook. And she fixed dinner. And those of us that wanted to signed up for the meal.
  • [01:21:12.85] But the other day, the little girl that lived next door to me who is about seven or eight knocked on my door. And she said, would you like to come to a knitting club? And knitting-- I love to knit. So I said, sure. She said, well, I'll come get you in a few minutes.
  • [01:21:28.74] So she came over. And I went next door. And she and two other young girls and her mother were there. And the three girls were finger knitting. I don't know if you've ever done finger knitting. And it was just fun to be invited. I mean, that kind of thing-- the interaction with the community people. And doing things like this, something that's different, and it's fun, and getting to know you three.
  • [01:22:00.89] And then, what else do I do? I play bridge. I just do things with friends. Well, I do a lot with Lois Anne and Bob because they live near here. That's fun. We are Survivor fanatics of the TV show Survivor. So we get together every Wednesday night, except this last Wednesday when I went to the opera. I don't think I do the opera for fun, because I don't like driving to Detroit at night and coming home so late.
  • [01:22:38.52] What else do I do for fun? I don't know. Until my cat died, I loved playing with my cat. And just being with people.
  • [01:22:52.41] SPEAKER 1: Are there any special days, events, or family traditions that you enjoy in this time of your life?
  • [01:23:00.32] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, we celebrate birthdays. And then I started out-- when my first great-grandchild was born, I thought, well, I just can't keep sending presents all the time. So I came up with the idea of sending a check or money to the mother when they were younger and having them pick out a book. Because that's something I do for fun-- read. I read a lot.
  • [01:23:28.67] And so when they were young, I suggested that the mother or whoever took the child to the store pick out two or three books. And whichever one the child pointed to, buy that. Now they're all old enough that they can pick out their own books. But I still do it. I send them a check and have them pick out a book for their birthdays.
  • [01:23:52.52] And I mean, all the holidays are special in their own way. But as I said before, we don't do it as a large group. We do it in smaller segments.
  • [01:24:10.08] SPEAKER 1: When thinking about your life after retirement, or your kids left home up to the present, what social or historical events were taking place? If you remember.
  • [01:24:21.30] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Starting when, did you say?
  • [01:24:24.21] SPEAKER 1: After retirement.
  • [01:24:25.26] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: After retirement, what social events have taken place? Well, an awful lot's happened in the world. But I don't need to go into that. Of course, in the family, there have been high school graduations, college graduations, marriages, children born. I mean, there's been even a big change there. And I'm drawing a blank.
  • [01:24:57.36] SPEAKER 1: OK. When thinking back on your entire life, if you remember, what important social historical event had the greatest impact on you?
  • [01:25:13.28] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, my first son, the one who died of polio, was born on V-J Day. So you know what that was-- the victory over Japan in the Second World War. And so that I remember because of the fact that my husband was on Guam in the Air Force. And so I was living with my parents.
  • [01:25:43.99] And they drove me to the hospital just before it was announced. And then it was announced. And it took them way, way longer to drive home because everybody was out in the street celebrating because the war was over. That's the one I remember most.
  • [01:26:08.12] SPEAKER 1: What family heirlooms or keepsakes or mementos do you possess?
  • [01:26:13.49] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Oh, I have a lot. I couldn't begin to go over all of them. Would you want me to list some of them?
  • [01:26:19.73] SPEAKER 1: What's the most important one to you?
  • [01:26:24.87] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I think the most important is a corner cupboard. Do you know what that is?
  • [01:26:28.70] SPEAKER 1: Mm-mm.
  • [01:26:29.24] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: A corner cupboard that I have that my mother and father bought. And it was something that I always loved. And I never really knew why I loved it especially. And my father repainted the inside. And I'm picturing it now as I'm sitting here. It's in my living room.
  • [01:26:48.50] And I found out later that it was the first piece of furniture that they ever bought when they lived in Pennsylvania. They had inherited stuff. So where they lived at that time, they had furniture. But they'd never bought anything together. So I was with them. And I was maybe four or five.
  • [01:27:10.67] And I don't remember it. I just was told it. But I just must have always remembered what joy they had in buying their first piece of furniture together. So that's the one that means the most to me. But I've gotten a lot of others.
  • [01:27:32.24] SPEAKER 1: Thinking back over your entire life, what are you most proud of?
  • [01:27:38.85] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, the first thing that popped into my head was my children. But I'm proud of a lot. And usually, the way I feel about my life is that what I'm doing at the moment is what's most important, because I have a lot of things in the past which I can't change. But it's nice to remember them. But I live very much in the present.
  • [01:28:08.85] SPEAKER 1: What would you say has changed most from the time you were my age to now?
  • [01:28:17.14] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, certainly music, dress. Well, and even subjects that you take in school, there wouldn't have been a class like this when I was in school because it was always traditional things. Hairstyles, definitely. I mean, I can go further abroad-- the politics and the government and all what's going on in the world. But I don't want to get into those.
  • [01:29:01.26] SPEAKER 1: OK. What advice would you give to my generation?
  • [01:29:09.37] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: The first thing I'd say is to enjoy your life. And learn from the past. Don't live in the past, but learn from it, which is what this project is trying to help you do. I reread the paper yesterday.
  • [01:29:37.15] Love your friends. Love your family. I don't know. I'm kind of wandering now. But just live in the present. And do what you can to help others. My pin, it says "humankind-- be both." I like that, both human and kind.
  • [01:30:04.10] SPEAKER 1: Is there anything else that you would like to tell us about that we haven't asked?
  • [01:30:11.65] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, I told you coming up that I remembered that music before I was five would have been nursery rhymes. [CHUCKLES]
  • [01:30:17.61]
  • [01:30:19.11] I had no idea what else it would be. I can't remember anything off the top of my head. We didn't quite take an hour, did we?
  • [01:30:32.02] SPEAKER 3: All right. We're recording.
  • [01:30:36.23] SPEAKER 1: We're going to elaborate on a few more questions. When you were in school, like high school, did you play any sports or engage in any extracurricular activities?
  • [01:30:46.10] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I played field hockey. I played fullback on the field hockey team. I loved doing that. And then when I moved up from Philadelphia to Massachusetts, they didn't play field hockey there. So I didn't get to do it then. And I played basketball, but that was more just part of the gym program. And back in those days, the girls had to stay on one half of the floor. You were either a fullback or a forward. And I was always on defense.
  • [01:31:23.75] SPEAKER 1: How long did you play field hockey for?
  • [01:31:26.72] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, it would have been the three high school years I was in Philadelphia before I moved.
  • [01:31:33.79] SPEAKER 1: And did you play basketball those three years also, or just in Massachusetts?
  • [01:31:37.04] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No, that was more just part of gym.
  • [01:31:39.20] SPEAKER 1: OK.
  • [01:31:40.45] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: And I didn't enjoy it at all. [CHUCKLES]
  • [01:31:43.13]
  • [01:31:45.52] SPEAKER 1: What about your school experience is different from school as you know it today?
  • [01:31:51.07] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, of course, I'm not certain of the difference because I don't know all the things you do and don't do that I did or didn't do. But one thing, we had the word this horrible gym suits. And I'm sure you don't have to do that now when you have phys ed. You don't even call it gym anymore, I don't think. And I really would have to think more about that question.
  • [01:32:24.29] SPEAKER 1: OK. You can tell us later if you remember anything. How did you feel when you were first employed as a teacher?
  • [01:32:40.60] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Overwhelmed, because as I mentioned last time, I had 30 children in the morning and another 30 in the afternoon. And it was a lot of four and five-year-olds to get to know.
  • [01:32:55.39] And to make them feel comfortable the first day of kindergarten is pretty traumatic for some children. I would often just have to take a child away from a mother and say, you just go on. So-and-so will be fine. And they always were. As soon as the mother was out of sight, they were excited about being there.
  • [01:33:21.25] So that was one thing. And not having any aide and just having to do it all myself. They have a lot of aides now. I think that may be required by law that you have to have one adult for every so many children. And we didn't have that then.
  • [01:33:41.57] The busing situation is in the past. That was pretty traumatic for the children that were being bussed, the children that were already there, the teachers. And fortunately, that's a thing of the past.
  • [01:33:59.55] SPEAKER 1: So do you think you may have many connections with the children?
  • [01:34:03.15] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Yes, I know I did. I think I talked about that last time. Do you want me to do it again?
  • [01:34:08.54] SPEAKER 1: You could elaborate more a little bit on it.
  • [01:34:11.80] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, I mentioned the boy who is now a man who contacted me when he saw me on Facebook and remembered that he was in my kindergarten class. This I didn't mention. He was a child that made it very difficult to teach and be a teacher, because he always knew everything. And he had all the answers. And he would sometimes try to correct me. And he was not easy to have in class. And then he's the one that remembers me. That's interesting.
  • [01:34:51.97] And also when the seniors voted for teachers that they remembered, to have them remember me. And I still have the little alarm clock that I got that has the date on the bottom of it that when I taught. That's about it.
  • [01:35:13.79] SPEAKER 1: Did you think that you made an impact on like little girls' lives or anything?
  • [01:35:20.51] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: That's interesting, because I did mention the boys. I'm sure I did. I can't remember anything specific. There was one little girl whose name was Paris. And she was one of the bussed girls. And she was having a difficult time adjusting to a different kind of class and teacher.
  • [01:35:43.38] And I wrote a story about her one time. And I called it-- you probably don't even know this song-- "The Last Time I Saw Paris." That was a popular song. And of course, it had to do with the city. But I called my story "The Last Time I Saw Paris." And I wrote different events of different reactions that she would have.
  • [01:36:08.79] And I still have that story. That was fun to write. And she finally adjusted, as we all did. It was new for all of us. And I don't remember any other girls individually. But I always loved the children in my class, so.
  • [01:36:31.77] SPEAKER 1: Do you think the children made an impact on you?
  • [01:36:35.10] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I'm sure they did. I mean, I think everybody makes an impact on everybody. Yeah. The ones that were difficult, like Paul, the one that remembered me, I had to be very careful not to let him know that he was bothering me and accept him for who he was. And then there were always children who needed a little extra help with remembering how to behave. And I'm sure I did.
  • [01:37:09.72] SPEAKER 1: Do you remember any significant differences throughout your years of teaching in how you taught?
  • [01:37:14.93] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Ask that again.
  • [01:37:16.42] SPEAKER 1: Do you remember any significant differences throughout the years of your teaching in how you taught kids or how you acted towards them?
  • [01:37:23.98] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Differences?
  • [01:37:25.87] SPEAKER 1: So like between the beginning of your teaching career and between [INAUDIBLE].
  • [01:37:29.89] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I don't think so, because I always interacted with younger children and had three younger siblings. And even today, when I interact with the children and my Cohousing community, I don't think I changed. I grew, I'm sure.
  • [01:37:59.44] SPEAKER 1: How do you think teaching changed you as a person-- away from the children or anything, but just you?
  • [01:38:07.64] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: I don't know that it changed me. It helped me realize that that was what I was meant to do. And I was always happy about that. The time that it became difficult was, I was in Indiana. And the state put a law through that all teachers had to have a master's degree.
  • [01:38:31.88] And up until then, most of us just had a bachelor's. So I had to go back to school and take some courses that I could end up getting a master's degree, which I think was rather-- well, I don't know that "foolish" is a good word. But first of all, I hadn't had any math classes in my undergraduate courses. So I had to take math class, which was made up of math teachers. And I never was especially good at math.
  • [01:39:11.48] When the final came, it was mostly made up of memorizing formula. And I was good at memorizing and then forgetting the next day. So I memorized all the formula. And I got a high grade on the test. And then (CHUCKLING) forgot it the next day. But I didn't need it to teach kindergarten. I don't need graduate math to teach them.
  • [01:39:36.30] And I remember one of the teachers moaning about the fact that they were now having to pass students to get their master's. And he said, and sometimes I have to pass students that I don't think really deserve it because it's their job. They'll lose their job if they don't get their master's degree. So he was unhappy about that.
  • [01:40:04.88] And then I had to write a dissertation in order to get the degree. And why I ever chose this subject and why I was even allowed to write about it-- and you'll all be surprised, too-- I wrote on, should marijuana be legalized? Now what that (CHUCKLING) has to do with teaching kindergarten, I have no idea. And if you're interested in my conclusion, it was that we didn't have enough information yet to make that decision.
  • [01:40:40.19] SPEAKER 1: So in your field of teaching, how was excellence judged?
  • [01:40:45.55] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Unfortunately, by testing, which still exists today. And I don't believe in teaching for tests. And I remember one question. Most of our children were in a lower income bracket and lived in small houses. And there was a picture of a very large house-- a medium size house and a smaller house, which was still larger than most of the ones they lived in. And they had to mark the cottage.
  • [01:41:22.72] Well, they didn't know what a cottage was. And really, in their sphere of information, if they'd known what a cottage was, all of the houses were bigger than any they lived in. And I thought that sometimes the questions were not geared to the children. But testing, even now-- and a lot of teachers teach for the test so that they look good. They look like they've been good teachers because, look at all the high grades their students got.
  • [01:41:57.98] SPEAKER 1: What were your relationships with the other teachers?
  • [01:42:05.39] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: The other kindergarten teacher and I taught very differently. She believed in doing more academics. I believed more in learning social skills, getting along with other children, following directions, not having to color in the lines, and different things like that. But we were good friends.
  • [01:42:27.11] Then the last couple of years, I taught a readiness first grade, which was-- I think I already mentioned this-- for the children who had finished kindergarten, but really weren't ready for first grade. And we didn't want them to have to repeat kindergarten.
  • [01:42:45.17] And there was a limit to the number of children I had. And the other first grade teachers really resented the fact that I could teach with so few children, or at least, compared to theirs. And one time I broke my ankle, and I came to school in a wheelchair. And they insisted that I had to take my playground time, even though I would had to have somebody help push me out to the playground. They were not very friendly to me. I mean, personally, we liked each other. But they didn't like the situation at all.
  • [01:43:29.77] SPEAKER 1: So with teaching, did you and other teachers butt heads a lot?
  • [01:43:33.07] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: You're going to have to speak a little louder.
  • [01:43:35.15] SPEAKER 1: With other teachers, did you guys butt heads a lot during teaching? [INAUDIBLE]
  • [01:43:39.53] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No, no, because I taught a class that nobody else taught.
  • [01:43:46.49] SPEAKER 3: [INAUDIBLE]
  • [01:43:47.45] SPEAKER 1: Can you pause it?
  • [01:43:50.81] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Which do you want first?
  • [01:43:54.19] SPEAKER 1: Start with clown school.
  • [01:43:57.19] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, when I first decided I wanted to become a clown, I was living up in the Adirondacks in northern New York state. And the friend and I wanted to, but we couldn't find a clown school up there.
  • [01:44:07.24] Then when I moved to Indiana, there was one not far. It was between Bloomington and Indianapolis, where I lived. And it was a 10-week school. It was pretty intensive for those 10 weeks.
  • [01:44:20.62] We had an hour of lecture from the teacher about different aspects of clowning-- the ethics of clowning. Like when I came into a classroom, I would always knock on the door first and then ask permission to come in. And I mean, there were just a lot of things that I had kind of internalized. And I can't really tell you what they were.
  • [01:44:48.85] And then the second hour, we did some aspect of what somebody might want to do as clowning. That would be balloon animals. Well, I never would do that. I'm afraid of balloons. And I even missed that one-- not deliberately. But I was glad I missed that class. Face painting-- I never want to do that, because I want to interact with a lot of children and not just one at a time. And I can't remember all of them now.
  • [01:45:22.33] Oh, then we had to choose our clown name. And my daughter Kathy and I just went over lots of names. And I don't know how I came up with "Firefly." I even when my firefly earrings.
  • [01:45:40.46] And then we had to design our own costumes. And I had a little clown doll whose name is Friendly Freddie. All my clown things start with the letter F. Friendly Freddie-- no, he wasn't in that picture. His costume was just like fireflies, except blue and white. And so I copied his costume and made mine red and white.
  • [01:46:09.52] And I don't know where I'm going now. Elaborate on a question. About a clown school.
  • [01:46:22.91] SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
  • [01:46:23.57] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Oh, and we had to write our autobiography as a clown, which I always use as the first thing when I do my program. I talk about when I once was a real, live firefly. And we talk about the difference between real and pretend. Now, and it's interesting that before a child is five, pretty much, they don't know the difference between real and pretend. And so I have to be careful in how I present that to the different age groups.
  • [01:46:55.19] And Friendly Freddie found me when I was a lost, little firefly and turned me into the grown-up clown that I became and let me help him with his magic tricks. So he comes along with me whenever I do a program.
  • [01:47:11.01] And I use the children's names as magic words. That's a great way to deal with a child who is afraid of clowns. I don't ever call on them. I just use their name as the magic word that makes the trick happen. And I don't know where I was going with that. But I forget what I was going to say.
  • [01:47:37.94] SPEAKER 1: Do you think one of the reasons why you decided to be a clown was so that you could interact with children more after you were retired?
  • [01:47:44.87] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No, because I did it a lot of years when I was teaching. It was just something that I wanted to do. A lot of things in my life that are different I've done just because I wanted to try them out. But I did keep on after I retired. I helped my youngest daughter with her kindergarten class of language-delayed preschoolers. And I would do Firefly with them. And I would go to several classrooms because I don't like enormous groups, because I want every child to be involved in some way.
  • [01:48:25.40] Oh, it was holding Freddie. They get to take turns holding Freddie. And I was asked permission first. I'd say, would you like to hold him? And I'd say, if you don't want to, you just have to say, no thank you.
  • [01:48:37.49] And then, I'd say, now, Freddie was my teacher. I'd say, now, what do teachers want us to do if we make mistakes? And most children say, try it again, or do it over, or something. And I'd say, well, I want Freddie to sit on your lap. And afterwards, I'll check with you to see if Freddie thought I did that trick well. And sometimes I make mistakes. And that's good for them to see, that everybody isn't perfect. And it's OK to make mistakes.
  • [01:49:07.67] SPEAKER 1: So as a clown, did you think, in some of your tricks or anything, that you taught kids a lesson?
  • [01:49:14.64] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Let me go up another notch. I have new hearing aids. And get a little louder here. OK. What was that again?
  • [01:49:23.19] SPEAKER 1: So when you were a clown, did you think that you taught any lessons to any kids?
  • [01:49:27.90] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Taught lessons to the kids? Oh, yes. I think I've just told you some of them.
  • [01:49:35.85] SPEAKER 1: Now we can move on to all the things that you didn't remember before and that you want to tell us now.
  • [01:49:41.36] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Mm-hmm. Yes, I don't know why when you asked me last time about things I've done since I retired I forgot all about the elder hostels. Now, the elder hostel program was a program for people after they retired. They were laid either in a college campus or some sort of outdoor setting. And they always offered three courses, which were very different from each other-- except when I went down to the Everglades in Florida. That was all pretty nature.
  • [01:50:11.49] And I went to several here in the States before I decided I would try some overseas. So I went to a couple in Spain. I went to one in England where it was a two-week one. Usually they were just a week. And this two-week one was a week of classes in a wonderful, old, thatched roof inn. It was a great experience.
  • [01:50:40.30] And then the second week, we stayed with a family. And the family I stayed with-- there were two twins who were just about to go into high school. And we even worked with Firefly there. And then they became good friends. They came over to the States to Florida and invited me to come down and stay with them for a while. And I went back over and visited them.
  • [01:51:10.23] And one fun thing was that Rob's father lived in Wales. And he wanted to drive me down to Wales to meet his parents. And he said, I'm going to take you up over a mountain where there are always many, many sheep, because I loved seeing the sheep in England. And he said, we'll probably have to stop in the middle of the road till they get out of the way.
  • [01:51:41.88] So we got there, and there was not a sheep in sight. So ever since then, every Christmas, every birthday, they send me something that has to do with a sheep. So that was kind of a fun thing.
  • [01:51:57.91] The other one that was outstanding was when I went to Finland. And this was up north of the Arctic Circle. I don't know how you are on geography, but Arctic Circle is pretty far north.
  • [01:52:13.45] And we stayed at a school. This was during vacation time. So we got to stay in a school that Finland has now done several of these, because they did just like we did to the Native Americans and most countries have done to their indigenous people. They took the children away from their homes and put them in schools, wouldn't let them speak their language, wouldn't let them do their reindeer herding and several other things that were part of their heritage. And so they were starting these schools to help people learn them again.
  • [01:52:52.48] So I wanted to write a note to the woman whose room I stayed in who I understood lived in Helsinki. And it was a postmaster. Women are not called postmistresses-- a postmaster. And we got to writing back and forth.
  • [01:53:15.55] And I said, like people do sometimes, oh, if you ever come to the United States, come visit me. So I got a letter saying, I'm coming to visit you on such and such a date. [LAUGHS] So she came. And she and I became friends and the two things she loved were hummingbirds and fireflies. She'd never seen either of them because Finland is so far north that they don't live up there.
  • [01:53:46.98] And that time when I went for the elder hostel, it was winter. So there was 24 hours of dark. They had a little tiny bit of what might be twilight. But mostly it was dark. And we would walk over the frozen lake to go to the city. And at 3:00 in the afternoon, it was pitch black.
  • [01:54:12.31] Then she invited me to come back over. And I was there-- this was pure coincidence-- for the longest day of the year where there was 24 hours of sunlight. And she was a great skier. And she would get up at midnight and go skiing because there was snow there year round. So those were great experiences.
  • [01:54:37.27] SPEAKER 1: Any other trips?
  • [01:54:38.97] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Do I what?
  • [01:54:39.81] SPEAKER 1: Any other trips that you took?
  • [01:54:42.24] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, I went to Spain three times. I ended up going with a friend who had been a Spanish professor. And he was an expert on Don Quixote. I don't know if you studied Don Quixote or not. But Don Quixote was fictional. But he was a man who tilted at windmills. Look him up if you're interested. It starts with a Q.
  • [01:55:09.67] And he took us to different places that were not places that tourists usually went to because he knew the city so well and he could communicate with the Spanish people. But I can't give you any specifics with that. I wrote limericks every place we went, which I must have somewhere, but I don't know where they are now.
  • [01:55:40.65] SPEAKER 1: OK. What was your trip to France like?
  • [01:55:45.88] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Oh, the one I just took? It was a wine cruise. And we were supposed to start at Bordeaux and go up and then come back down around and stop at different chateaus along the way and sample the wine. Bordeaux wine happens to be my favorite wine-- red Bordeaux.
  • [01:56:15.06] But the river was low. So we couldn't do much cruising. We just went up a little bit, and we sort of turned the corner. And then we had to come back down. So we spent most of our time on motor buses to get to these different chateaus. So that was disappointing.
  • [01:56:32.58] But the ship was really nice. It was fun to be on and good food, good wine, good company. My son went along. And it's the first time he and I have done anything just the two of us alone, I think since he was in high school. Or even then, probably it was with his siblings. So that was a great experience.
  • [01:57:01.28] SPEAKER 1: Do you think you guys rekindled a connection between you two?
  • [01:57:06.26] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: No, we've always had the connection. It was just the fun of being alone. No, I'm very close to all four of my children.
  • [01:57:15.39] SPEAKER 1: Any other experiences after your retirement that you want to tell us about?
  • [01:57:21.09] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, those were the ones I remembered that I'd forgotten. Well, living in Cohousing, I don't think I've talked about it at all. I live in Cohousing now off of Jackson between Zeeb and Wagner.
  • [01:57:40.65] There are three Cohousing communities. And Cohousing is an intergenerational-- I'm the oldest in the community. And we have a six-week-old baby who's the youngest. And then we'd range in between children, adults, married, singles, divorced. It's just amazing how it happened. It wasn't planned that way. Cohousing happens that way.
  • [01:58:10.95] We do all our own work. We have a work program. So when we have meals, which we have three meals a week that people may or may not sign up for. We had a Korean dinner last night. We have a Korean couple that lives with us. And he does wonderful meals.
  • [01:58:28.98] And so people can sign up to be cooks, assistant cooks, clean up. We have a sign-up for snow team, for weeding gardens. We have business meetings. We had a big business meeting Saturday to approve the core budget. We do all our own finances.
  • [01:58:53.53] It was started in Denmark, the Cohousing program, and then came over here to the west coast and is spreading now over the country. And when I first heard about Cohousing, I read an article about it in a magazine. And I make my mind up fairly quickly. And I said, that's where I want to live.
  • [01:59:22.17] So I looked where my children lived. Well, Peter lived in St. Louis. And the only Cohousing there is downtown. And I don't want to live in a big city. Kathy lived in central Illinois at the time. And, again, Chicago was the closest one. And then she moved to West Virginia. So that wouldn't have helped. Julia lived in Indiana. And there are none in Indiana.
  • [01:59:46.53] Then I found here. And my daughter Lois Anne lives about half an hour from me. So I moved to Cohousing. And we had our 10th anniversary a month or so ago. And it's a great experience.
  • [02:00:07.56] SPEAKER 1: Could you describe your house?
  • [02:00:09.56] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, we all own our own condo. And my building has two three-bedroom condos on either end with two stories. And then in the middle, there's a two-bedroom with a full basement. And above that, another two one-bedroom with an attic.
  • [02:00:29.82] And I live in the two-bedroom with the basement. And it's a full basement. So I've been able to fix it up some and put on a deck out back, which looks out on the swim club property, not just the trees.
  • [02:00:48.09] And it's a nice area to live. We don't allow any cars except for either emergency or repair cars in the inner circle, because the children play out in the whole area. And we get together. We rule by consensus. We don't vote. And that's a great way to rule. "Rule" isn't a good word, but govern.
  • [02:01:22.56] So that's something that's different. And it's amazing the number of people in Ann Arbor that have never heard of it. And here, they've got three communities right in a row.
  • [02:01:36.36] SPEAKER 1: Do you have many visitors at your house?
  • [02:01:38.21] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Any what?
  • [02:01:38.93] SPEAKER 1: Visitors.
  • [02:01:41.41] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, my children come to visit. And I have friends. I have a lot of good friends still in Bloomington who will come up to visit me. And then sometimes someone in Cohousing will need a place for someone to stay. And they can stay in my basement.
  • [02:02:05.13] SPEAKER 1: At Cohousing, do you have one special relationship with somebody or many special relationships?
  • [02:02:10.33] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Many. I think we're sort of closest to the people right near us. And there are four of us. So we started out with two of us probably 10 years ago having breakfast every so often. And then we added a third. And then we added a fourth.
  • [02:02:28.00] And so now we have four of us that have breakfast together. And usually, we just bring our own breakfast to someone's home. And we're doing it this Friday morning. And I do have one who has my assistant medical power of attorney. If something happens, she lets my daughter know.
  • [02:02:54.38] SPEAKER 1: Has moving into Cohousing made a different impact on your life than living in other places?
  • [02:03:02.32] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Mm, I don't know. I pretty much live each day as it comes. And I really don't know how to answer that. Probably has.
  • [02:03:15.97] But I had had one of my neighbors ask if she could bring a woman-- oh, that wasn't to talk about Cohousing, though. That was about Life Choices, which is the program of why I'm here. I'm a Life Choice member.
  • [02:03:33.67] And Life Choices is a program that helps people stay in their own home so that if anything happened to them-- it's sort of like a long-term health care program. If anything happened to me, someone would come in and stay with me. There are a lot of things. There a lot of advantages to it. And I spoke to this woman, Ruby, who was this little, tiny, bent-over woman. And afterward, Robin told me she was younger than I. And I was surprised.
  • [02:04:08.31] SPEAKER 1: When did you join Life Choices?
  • [02:04:11.65] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Well, I've lived here 10 years. I'd say probably 6 or 7 years ago. It's a fairly new program. And it's only in southeastern Michigan now. But it's part of the Evangelical Homes of Michigan program, which is in Saline. But it's part of it. But it's separate.
  • [02:04:37.38] SPEAKER 1: How did you find out about Life Choices?
  • [02:04:42.81] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: In our Cohousing, since we have three communities, we sometimes share things. One thing we do, we have a senior luncheon once a month. And one time, the man that led Life Choices came and talked to us. And I was sold on it. I made my mind up quickly about it, too.
  • [02:05:04.66] SPEAKER 1: Do you feel safer with Life Choices?
  • [02:05:06.31] LOIS ZIMMERMAN: Mm-hmm. Yes, I could have even gotten a ride here if I wasn't driving.
  • [02:05:15.04] SPEAKER 1: Can you pause it?