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Ann Arbor 200

AADL Talks To: Jim Forrester, Former Activist and Founder, Partners Press, Inc.

When: July 13, 2023

Jim Forrester
Jim Forrester, October 2019 (Photo by Ginia Forrester)

In this episode, AADL Talks To Jim Forrester. Jim came to the University of Michigan as a student in 1966 and he has lived in Ann Arbor ever since, retiring after running a successful printing business for 30 years. As a student, Jim wrote for the Michigan Daily, participated in anti-war protests, and was involved with both the Students for a Democratic Society and Ann Arbor's Human Rights Party. Jim reflects on this period in Ann Arbor history and discusses some of the changes he's witnessed at the city and county level over the past five decades.

Transcript

  • [00:00:09] [MUSIC]
  • [00:00:09] ELIZABETH SMITH: Hi, this is Elizabeth.
  • [00:00:10] AMY CANTU: And this is Amy. In this episode, AADL Talks To Jim Forrester. Jim came to the University of Michigan as a student in 1966 and has lived in Ann Arbor ever since. He talks with us about the highly charged political environment of the late 1960s and early '70s, his involvement with the Students for a Democratic Society and Ann Arbor's Human Rights Party, and writing for the Michigan Daily. Jim also reflects on the many changes he's seen in city and county politics over the past five decades.
  • [00:00:42] ELIZABETH SMITH: Thank you for joining us today, Jim. We're going to start out just by asking you where you grew up, and what brought you to Ann Arbor.
  • [00:00:50] JIM FORRESTER: Detroit and the University, going to school.
  • [00:00:54] ELIZABETH SMITH: What year was that?
  • [00:00:55] JIM FORRESTER: 1966, January. Well, I didn't come to the University in January. I came to spring-summer semester because they were drafting kids and sending them out to get killed. If you didn't get in school as soon as you could, that's what happened to you.
  • [00:01:18] AMY CANTU: Wow. I'm curious, and we'll get into this a little bit, about your campus activities and your political leanings. But did you come to the university with specific views? Did you get radicalized here? Can you talk a little bit about what you were thinking as a -- presumably -- 18-year-old when you came here?
  • [00:01:41] JIM FORRESTER: There were kids in my high school that protested the war. I didn't. My view of it was a lot like most people's at the time, that Communism was a bad idea, and people who got stuck with it were going to have miserable lives and that's about as far as it went. Then I turned 18 and got on the bus and went Downtown to the Cadillac Tower to the draft board and registered. That woke me up a little bit because it was pretty clear that the government was serious about sending bodies all over the world to do whatever, and I had to think about whether I wanted to be part of that. My dad was, but they were fighting Nazis, and that was pretty easy to understand. Fighting people at 12,000 miles away who hadn't shot at us at all, it was a little tougher. That's where I was when I left high school. I didn't have any particular view about the war or whether I was going to protest it or not. That definitely happened here on the campus.
  • [00:03:05] AMY CANTU: How did that happen and when?
  • [00:03:07] JIM FORRESTER: Well, you're just around all that stuff. When you come to this school, you're feeling your way, you're looking for things to do to start going to class and coming back and reading yet another 400 pages of whatever. After a couple of years, I ended up at the Daily, and at the Daily, you meet a lot of people.
  • [00:03:34] AMY CANTU: What were you studying, just so we have that for the record?
  • [00:03:37] JIM FORRESTER: English and History.
  • [00:03:38] ELIZABETH SMITH: Did you graduate with those as your majors?
  • [00:03:41] JIM FORRESTER: No, I didn't graduate. I got to be 21 and really had a crisis of identity, whether what was I doing here at all? What was I going to do with a degree? Did I really want to teach? In fact, I couldn't see myself standing up in front of a bunch of kids if I couldn't tell them that the war really sucked and "don't do this." I told my nephews that when they became of age but they weren't going to get drafted, so it wasn't really a question for them. It would have been a pretty serious business in the early '70s if I was telling kids not to go to Vietnam as a teacher.
  • [00:04:26] AMY CANTU: Tell us a little bit about your work at the Daily. What did you write about and what was it like there?
  • [00:04:35] JIM FORRESTER: Well, it was pretty free-wheeling. There was a tradition there. The Daily had gotten rid of both a regent and the president of the University by the time I joined it, so it felt like a pretty powerful institution. People there were really smart and a lot of fun. Putting out a paper every day, we put out a paper six days a week. It wasn't a big paper -- it was like eight pages -- but still people had to go out and interview people, cover stuff, and doing a decent job of that when folks' major part of their attention is elsewhere.
  • [00:05:22] AMY CANTU: Yeah, it's serious work.
  • [00:05:24] JIM FORRESTER: It was somewhat serious, [LAUGHTER] let's not get carried away here. We managed to have a pretty good time when we were doing all this stuff and going to football games and basketball games and hockey games. I covered sports. [LAUGHTER]
  • [00:05:46] AMY CANTU: But that wasn't too stressful.
  • [00:05:47] JIM FORRESTER: It wasn't too stressful until I didn't stand up for the national anthem in the press box at the stadium.
  • [00:05:55] AMY CANTU: Tell us about that.
  • [00:05:57] JIM FORRESTER: Will Smith was the sports information director and we all knew him pretty well. The next time I came up there, he said, "Well, why don't you just not be in your seat when the anthem is played?" I thought that was a reasonable compromise. There was no reason to make his life miserable because that's all it would do. Can't remember when this happened, before or after, but we managed to get ourselves into the press box at Tiger Stadium. Caveat being, we had to be there every day. It didn't have to be the same guy every day. We kept that up for a few weeks until the baseball writer for the Detroit News exploded on one of the guys, and that was the end of that. But George Cantor got us in there. That was a lot of fun. But it didn't last very long because the stadium is 40 miles away and transportation, people's time... Because if you were here in the summer, you're generally going to school.
  • [00:07:10] AMY CANTU: When you said you didn't stand for the anthem, was this...
  • [00:07:13] JIM FORRESTER: It was a war protest.
  • [00:07:14] AMY CANTU: It was primarily the war. Were you protesting anything else specifically or mostly the war at that point?
  • [00:07:21] JIM FORRESTER: For that, it was the war. There was student power stuff that was going on, but that was about the war.
  • [00:07:29] ELIZABETH SMITH: You were also involved in some political groups in the area. Could you talk a little bit about that?
  • [00:07:34] JIM FORRESTER: Well, I was in the SDS. Pretty much later on, just as I was leaving school, I was getting involved with those folks. But they came in and out of the Daily, so they were people I had acquaintance with. Can't say exactly I got recruited.
  • [00:07:57] AMY CANTU: You were in the radical wing, right? [LAUGHTER]
  • [00:07:59] JIM FORRESTER: Well, you give yourselves pats on the back and give yourselves names to make yourself a little larger than you really are, maybe a lot larger, because the SDS was a fairly larger student organization. When you first meet people involved with it, you tend to gravitate toward personalities just to be truthful about my past. Did I really want to hang out with so and so? And then do I find them that interesting? The people that were supporting the Weather Underground and that wing -- I didn't find them that interesting. In fact, I found them pretty crazy, because it's one thing to throw a brick through a window, it's another thing to build bombs. Those folks I did not want any part of, and I thought they were just plain wrong.
  • [00:09:15] AMY CANTU: Who were some of the personalities in the SDS that you did gravitate toward?
  • [00:09:20] JIM FORRESTER: Gary Rothberger. She was his girlfriend then, but they got married -- Susan. And Eric Chester, his wife Margaret, Dan Halloran, he had a career in the housing department here. Those folks understood that Ann Arbor was not a hotbed of the revolution and that there was no revolution in the United States, and there wasn't going to be a revolution in the United States. Once that became clear, what kind of politics could we really do? All of us are pretty young, I mean, Gary and Susan and Eric and Margaret were a little older, but most of us were in our early 20s.
  • [00:10:25] AMY CANTU: The SDS had started in the early 60s. Was this a different, like the second -- not so much generation -- but did it feel like it was a second wave or something like that?
  • [00:10:36] JIM FORRESTER: Well, it's a university town. Kids come in, kids leave. I didn't leave, but almost everybody that I was involved with in those years did.
  • [00:10:53] AMY CANTU: What were some of the things you did? What was a typical action... Just protesting? Or what did that look like?
  • [00:11:05] JIM FORRESTER: Well, sometimes it was marches, sometimes it was storming a regents meeting and making those guys uncomfortable. It was mostly guys. I mean, basically you were confronting a room full of old white guys. Wasn't until years later that I think they got anybody of color on that board of regents. I think Kathy White's still there. I had a printing and copying business for 30 years and all my contacts that I made when I was active, they went out in the world and into the local community anyway, and got real jobs with real responsibilities and needed printing and copying, and that's how I got started.
  • [00:11:59] AMY CANTU: That's great.
  • [00:11:59] JIM FORRESTER: That's business because they would bring me all their work. The local Democratic Party was pretty supportive because we were union. Bob White, Kathy's dad, was the treasurer, and he was kind of a flaky treasurer, because we were always pestering him to get paid. But then Kathy ran for regent, and we printed all her stuff and she won.
  • [00:12:33] ELIZABETH SMITH: Did you pretty much immediately get into the printing business after you left U of M?
  • [00:12:39] JIM FORRESTER: Almost yeah, the student bookstore got started out of the Sit-in in 1969, and there were a couple of other results from that student power movement and one of them was changing around... creating the General Studies degree. Our editor, Mark Levin, he weighed about the three of us put together. The Phys Ed requirement that was part of getting a BA or BS was impossible for Mark. I mean, he could barely get up the stairs at the Daily, let alone do anything remotely athletic. And so that's how he got his degree is that when they came up with Bachelor of General Studies.
  • [00:13:40] AMY CANTU: You participated in a few specific events, and I just wanted to ask you about them. I think I read that you were part of the crater dig on campus. Can you talk a little bit about that? That was in conjunction with the White Panther or Rainbow People's Party or whatever they were.
  • [00:13:56] JIM FORRESTER: I can't remember who -- I didn't have anything to do with the organizing. I got arrested. But they zip-tied us up, instead of regular handcuffs. But they didn't search anybody. I had a pocket knife, and so by the time we got to the jail, nobody was zip-tied up anymore because...
  • [00:14:29] AMY CANTU: You took care of that problem. Is that what you're saying? That's a thing to say.
  • [00:14:36] JIM FORRESTER: I really don't know much about how the police department at that time was recruited and what the requirements were to be an officer and what kind of education people needed and what training they went through, I had no idea of that. I just knew that they were kind of not so good at dealing with uppity kids. When it came to dealing with Black people, they were a whole lot more efficient. Dealing with kids, they never knew who was going to be the son of a vice president at Ford Motor Company. They learned pretty quickly that they could get in a lot of trouble if they beat up the wrong... But when it came to Black kids, that was easy for them. They just arrested them.
  • [00:15:37] AMY CANTU: Are you distinguishing between the Ann Arbor Police Department here and the Washtenaw County...?
  • [00:15:42] JIM FORRESTER: No, not really. Washtenaw County was definitely less sophisticated. But the Ann Arbor police were just as racist. There's no question in my mind of that. The Black Power strike in the spring of 1970: We had a demonstration outside the administration building, by The Cube and mostly organized by people like me because there's hundreds of white kids out there and, maybe 50 Black kids, but the only ones that got arrested that day were Black kids. It was pretty clear what was going on. Almost for certain, they knew those kids didn't have anybody backing them up, and they all got charged with felonies.
  • [00:16:43] ELIZABETH SMITH: Did you have any more involvement with the Black Action Movement that was going on in town?
  • [00:16:47] JIM FORRESTER: Well, through the strike, I did. But a group of us met with them before the strike, before they went to the Regent's meeting, to set some ground rules because they were pretty wary of us. They didn't want the tail wagging the dog. They wanted to make it clear they were the dog and if we were going to support them, that was fine. But running our own agenda -- that was not fine. We said, Sure, because we walked picket lines with the UAW, so we knew what that was about. It wasn't about us. But we found out that day that it didn't matter how much we supported them, they were still going to be the ones collecting all the grief.
  • [00:17:50] AMY CANTU: Is that why you joined the Human Rights Party?
  • [00:17:54] JIM FORRESTER: Well, it was kind of a successor to all the campus stuff, and a lot of people gravitated to it who weren't part of those of us who were taking more risks with our futures by confronting the police. Their ideas were pretty much Bernie Sanders kinda ideas. That's how I would identify those people then. For the most part, they're pretty decent folks. They had different ideas of how a political party should operate. Those of us from further left on the spectrum were trying to create something that was more from the bottom up and didn't depend on charismatic personalities as much as we needed mass participation. People making decisions as a group rather than voting for say, a steering committee and letting them run the party. I was on the steering committee for a while, but we definitely didn't run the party. And we were representatives to the extent that when we put a couple of people on the city council, we made sure that they were operating within the bounds of what the larger group had decided were our policies.
  • [00:19:40] AMY CANTU: What happened to the Human Rights Party? Can you tell us how long they were around and what your perspective is on what happened?
  • [00:19:48] JIM FORRESTER: My perspective was that it required a lot of energy and you can only sustain an organization like a political party on youthful energy for so long, and then people have to spend that time elsewhere. That's what I think happened at the Human Rights Party. We just never had any real money.
  • [00:20:12] AMY CANTU: Got you.
  • [00:20:13] ELIZABETH SMITH: You also mentioned that for the Crater Dig, you weren't really involved in organizing. Were you involved with the White Panther Party, Rainbow People's Party in any capacity?
  • [00:20:23] JIM FORRESTER: No. I knew those people. I had a testy relationship with them because they were a collective in the sense that people organize themselves and get 40 acres and have a collective farm. They were kind of an extended family and so as a political organization, they were about themselves. And they were certainly willing to let people come into their orbit but it was not a mass organization. They were definitely more or less on the right side of things, but if you had a different idea, you weren't part of them. I had -- and what I still think is -- a bit more expansive view on how society should be organized. We all have a part to play and we all have something to say and we all have a right to say it and have it be respected, and that wasn't them. Given that everybody had strong opinions, especially them, getting along with them was an up-and-down thing. For me anyway.
  • [00:21:51] AMY CANTU: And the SDS and the White Panther... they parted ways, they diverged in many ways.
  • [00:21:57] JIM FORRESTER: A lot of things went on at the same time and didn't have... You know, there was the larger anti-war movement, the mobilization and the war. That was huge and it dwarfed the SDS. But the mobilization didn't see itself as confronting the local power structure at all because the university was pretty involved with the war. There were a lot of things in protest here. Even after Robben Fleming came out and said the war was a mistake, they were still running the electronic battlefield and recruiting people to work at various defense contractors.
  • [00:22:49] AMY CANTU: Can you talk a little bit about--were you involved with the South University riot?
  • [00:22:54] JIM FORRESTER: Well, I was working for the Daily. I was here that summer, so I was the sports editor. When that took off, we all went out into the street to report. I don't think I had any bylines, but we called in what we saw, and one of the things we saw was Doug Harvey tear-gassing the President's house, and that was the end of Doug Harvey.
  • [00:23:24] AMY CANTU: Tell us more about Doug Harvey, because we're going to ask you a little bit about... [LAUGHTER] But tell us what your thoughts of him were.
  • [00:23:31] JIM FORRESTER: Well, he was he was pretty representative of the out county population. Basically, they were racist and bigoted. Some of the worst MAGA types were out in Dexter, at that time, anyway. Dexter's pretty much now a bedroom community for the university but...and Chelsea was the same way. Now it's a lot of retirees. These communities have changed a lot in the intervening 50 years. This is a long time ago, even for me. I don't want anybody hearing this to think that then and now are the same because they're not. They're definitely not. I'd meet people out there and I'd like them, and then you'd hear things creep into the conversation and you realized, you didn't really have that much in common with these folks. And you just had to pull back because no, I didn't think jewing somebody was part of polite conversation. But that was the milieu out there, and the people that ended up in the Sheriff's department, that's where they were recruited from. It's a lot different now. The Sheriff is a Black guy. That's a big difference. We got rid of Doug Harvey and the next guy had a history of domestic violence and so it took a while to get somebody in there that wasn't a total screw-up.
  • [00:25:34] ELIZABETH SMITH: Do you have any speculation on why the department has changed over the years, and what made it better over time?
  • [00:25:41] JIM FORRESTER: The Democratic Party became more progressive in Washtenaw County. There was a group of women. There was a bunch of Grace Shackman was one of them. She's a local historian. They changed the Democratic Party. They're the main reason that almost everybody is a Democrat in public office in the county. Janis Bobrin was drain commissioner
  • [00:26:19] AMY CANTU: Drain Commissioner.
  • [00:26:20] JIM FORRESTER: These and the prosecutor -- he had a pretty strong relationship with the domestic violence project. The party changed quite a bit and when it became clear to the local Republicans that being a Republican wasn't a good idea anymore, especially when W came out and said he had doubts about the theory of evolution. How can you be an academic and...
  • [00:27:00] AMY CANTU: ...Let that go?
  • [00:27:03] JIM FORRESTER: Most of the academics around here couldn't. This was a Republican town when I came here.
  • [00:27:09] AMY CANTU: Yeah, I was going to say: Had you intended to stay in Ann Arbor, or did you just happen to stay? Would you have stayed if it hadn't become more progressive?
  • [00:27:22] JIM FORRESTER: It was easy to stay in Ann Arbor. I had opportunity to leave at one point. I had been organizing for the Graphic Arts Union. You do that for a while and then it gets really hard to get a job. They were going to get me work somewhere around Detroit. Did I really want to live in Detroit or somewhere around the suburbs? It was very clear to me that inside the city limits there wasn't a whole lot of need for another pasty white guy. Although having anybody in Detroit on the right side of things probably would have helped. But the city was majority -- by quite a bit -- African American, and so at that time it was important for African Americans to run Detroit.
  • [00:28:20] AMY CANTU: We have to ask you about the particular notorious incident with the Washtenaw County Jail. You were part of the Harvey Krishna. Was it nine?
  • [00:28:31] JIM FORRESTER: There were nine of us.
  • [00:28:33] AMY CANTU: Tell us about that incident.
  • [00:28:38] JIM FORRESTER: We had been protesting in the West Engineering Building. The Dow Chemical was in there recruiting. We were intent on disrupting that process. We went in there and just made a lot of noise, basically, making it hard to do interviews. Then the police came and drove us out and a fight ensued outside the building on the Diag and on the other side of the building on East University. Seven guys got arrested that day and I found out -- I forget who the other fellow was -- but there were two of us that found out there were warrants out against us, and so we turned ourselves in the next day. And everybody got their head shaved. That was Doug's program of hygiene in the jail.
  • [00:29:44] AMY CANTU: How did it feel?
  • [00:29:47] JIM FORRESTER: Well, it's humiliating. I felt powerless, to an extent. You know I didn't feel unsafe because I was a white guy. I knew in the end that I was going to get out of there, that what I was charged with was not going to send me to prison and possibly short term in jail, if that. I didn't have the same things working against me that even someone who was white and came from a different background might have.
  • [00:30:35] AMY CANTU: Were all the nine white?
  • [00:30:37] JIM FORRESTER: Yeah we were all basically college types.
  • [00:30:42] ELIZABETH SMITH: Was there any fallout for Harvey for doing that?
  • [00:30:45] JIM FORRESTER: Well, it took a while. One of the other guys, surprisingly, his mother was an activist of the previous generation and knew everybody in the UAW and all of their legal apparatus. And she knew Ernie Goodman very well. Eernie Goodman was legendary. He was legendary at that time but people may have forgotten about it by now, but Ernie was a big deal. I was shocked when I found out that he was interested in suing the sheriff's department because we got haircuts. We thought it was pretty funny at the time and I had no problem with joining the lawsuit. Some of the other fellows thought it was kind of a waste of time, but in the end, it was basically a good time for us, a bad time for Doug.
  • [00:32:12] AMY CANTU: He had hired a barber. They had one at the jail for a while then, right?
  • [00:32:16] JIM FORRESTER: Well, it was an inmate that cut our hair.
  • [00:32:19] AMY CANTU: Oh, okay.
  • [00:32:21] JIM FORRESTER: I don't know what he might have done subsequent to that after things started to heat up over giving people haircuts. But he might have brought in a barber to try and stem the embarrassment, I guess. We eventually got a hearing in federal court. I remember the judge's name, Damon Keith.
  • [00:32:48] AMY CANTU: Oh, yeah.
  • [00:32:51] JIM FORRESTER: He was exactly the wrong guy [LAUGHTER] for the county to be arguing this case in front of. The assistant county attorney whose name, again, I forget -- he became a judge subsequently in the county -- he would never have survived in Ann Arbor, that's for sure. Because he's arguing in front of the judge that at one point he referred to us as animals. Keith ripped him -- just went after him for several minutes about how, in his court, everyone was a human being, everyone had dignity and no one was an animal, and that this particular attorney was going to get with the program.
  • [00:34:00] AMY CANTU: Oh, that's great. Yeah, we interviewed him a while back about the bombing -- the White Panther case with Pun Plamondon. He was very willing to chat with us. He was a great guy. Is it true that you haven't cut your hair since then?
  • [00:34:18] JIM FORRESTER: I have. In 1975, a girlfriend and I hitchhiked back and forth across the country. It was not a good idea to have long hair and I did the same thing with another girlfriend around Alaska, five years later. Again, it was a bad idea to have long hair. It's hard to deal with on the road for one thing, but on the other hand, there are just people out there at that time, would overreacted very badly. You're pretty vulnerable when you're sticking your thumb out. But since then, it's just falling out on its own.
  • [00:35:20] AMY CANTU: [LAUGHTER] Did you consider yourself a hippie?
  • [00:35:22] JIM FORRESTER: No. I always had a job, so no. [LAUGHTER] I wasn't Maynard G Krebs. [LAUGHTER]
  • [00:35:31] ELIZABETH SMITH: Over the years, did you remain involved in political action and protesting?
  • [00:35:36] JIM FORRESTER: To an extent. I was pretty active in the antinuclear power movement, sort of involved with Michael Moore for a while. There was a big protest at Midland to keep that power plant from being constructed. We had a lot of local help with that.
  • [00:36:02] AMY CANTU: In terms of protesting around here, once the city became more Democratic and a little bit more progressive... If it had stayed Republican, do you think you would have been more directly active or did it kind of fade away for you?
  • [00:36:20] JIM FORRESTER: Having to make a living. I started a business in 1980 and to make it go, you had to put in a lot of hours. Now, we did some free stuff, but in terms of going out and organizing like I had in the past, no, that was done. It was either feed myself, house myself, clothe myself, because my talents to make a living, say by writing or somewhere in the arts of that sort. I knew my limits.
  • [00:37:05] AMY CANTU: You've been in Ann Arbor then since '66 did you say? Just broadly, in broad strokes, how do you feel Ann Arbor has changed? We're right on the verge of the Bicentennial, so you've been here since...
  • [00:37:22] JIM FORRESTER: Gotten bigger. All the people that were Republicans, they had kids and those kids were socially progressive. They didn't hate Black kids. They didn't hate gay kids. They didn't hate Jewish kids. But they were still money-grubbing [LAUGHTER] scions of the local ruling class, so they became Democrats and all the bankers and realtors that were in the Republican Party when I came here. Now all those people are in the Democratic Party. As far as the economy goes, their place in it isn't any different than it was then. It's just they have a different social outlook and so they're Democrats. But I wouldn't describe the local Democratic Party as too different from the National Party. In that sense, it's pretty much the same -- socially progressive and to a large extent, backwardly looking economically.
  • [00:38:59] ELIZABETH SMITH: Is there something in your career that you're most proud of?
  • [00:39:02] JIM FORRESTER: Well, having a business for 30 years. My partner that I started it with, she and I were romantically involved for 13 of those years, and we each bought a house, we each created a decent retirement for ourselves. Those were major accomplishments.
  • [00:39:30] AMY CANTU: What was the name of your business, Jim?
  • [00:39:32] JIM FORRESTER: Partners Press.
  • [00:39:35] AMY CANTU: Where were you located?
  • [00:39:37] JIM FORRESTER: We were located several places. We were out on a farm for a couple of years, and then we moved into the city, and we were in a building where the YMCA is now. When the writing was on the wall for that site, we took over a printing and copying business on the corner of Huron and Division, and we were there for a while. Then he raised the rent by about 1.6 and we didn't have the cash flow to support that. We ended up out on Industrial by the bowling alley. That was the last years of the business. I had health problems in '08 and kept it going for a couple of years after that, but it was either invest a lot of money that I didn't have to keep the business going because you have to keep up with the times. Just that printing and copying is driven by technology and if you don't have something close to the latest technology, you're going to go under. We managed to create a business by being two steps behind and making up for it with sweat equity, but as you get older, that doesn't work anymore.
  • [00:41:16] AMY CANTU: It's harder to do.
  • [00:41:19] JIM FORRESTER: I was 62 and like I said, I wasn't as tough anymore, so it was time to stop.
  • [00:41:27] AMY CANTU: Well, thank you for your activism.
  • [00:41:29] JIM FORRESTER: I did what I could when I could and other things happened, and now I'm just plain tired. [LAUGHTER]
  • [00:41:37] AMY CANTU: Well take a rest, Jim, you've earned it. [LAUGHTER] [MUSIC] Well, thank you so much.
  • [00:41:42] JIM FORRESTER: Sure.
  • [00:41:43] AMY CANTU: AADL Talk To is a production of the Ann Arbor District Library.