In Charge Of Energy

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 1:11pm

When: September 11, 2013 at the Downtown Library

As energy prices and greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise, it has never been more important to identify and capture opportunities for energy efficiency. Speakers from the City of Ann Arbor, the Downtown Development Authority, and Clean Energy Coalition tackle this important topic and encourage discussion by highlighting local efforts including electric vehicles, electric vehicle charging stations, and building energy efficiency.

Transcript

• [00:00:26.13] TIM GRIMES: OK. Good evening, everybody, and welcome to the Ann Arbor District Library. I'm Tim Grimes. I manage community relations and marketing here at the library. Thank you so much for coming because it's kind of a stormy night out tonight. I've been here for a while. It was sunny when I came to work, but I understand it's pretty bad out. So we really appreciate you being here.
• [00:00:45.68] We work with a lot of community partners when we do our events, and tonight's event is the Clean Energy Coalition. And here to tell us more is Mark Rabinsky.
• [00:00:54.56] [APPLAUSE]
• [00:01:00.93] MARK RABINSKY: Good evening, everybody. Thanks for coming, and thank you to our presenters for agreeing to speak tonight as well. The Clean Energy Coalition is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit. We're relocated right in Ann Arbor on the North Main Street. We do a number of projects both in Ann Arbor and around the state. We focus on transportation, structures, and advancing communities within the state.
• [00:01:30.18] Tonight we'll be discussing mostly electric vehicles as well as building infrastructure. The city itself has done a lot in terms of putting forward a climate action plan, installing electric vehicle charging stations. I think we're definitely in the top range there when it comes to installing electric vehicle charging stations in the state. We've done so much with that.
• [00:01:58.83] We have Matt Naud from the City of Ann Arbor that's going to talk about some of our climate commitment and what we're focusing on. Dave Konkle from the DDA is going to talk about electric vehicles charging stations. Before that, I'll give you a primer on electric vehicles and what we've done as a state for electric vehicles. And Joel Baetens from Clean Energy Coalition is going to finish it off tonight discussing structures and buildings and how we become more energy efficient in that manner. First, Matt Naud from the City of Ann Arbor.
• [00:02:33.99] [APPLAUSE]
• [00:02:40.77] MATT NAUD: Thank you all for coming out tonight. I am Matt Naud. I'm the environmental coordinator for the city and happy to be here with a bunch of folks we know that we've worked with in the past and continue to work with. I'm going to give a little overview of a bunch of things that are going on in the city, just touch on them mostly. And then if there's questions, I can give you more detail, or they're certainly websites you can go to.
• [00:03:06.24] We have a brand new climate action plan. It's very pretty, but it also takes a really serious look at the carbon emissions at the city. It's a very large document. You can find it at a2energy.org/climate. I'm going to touch on some of the things we know through the climate plan.
• [00:03:28.27] Here's our community-wide greenhouse gas emissions by sector. You see the University of Michigan is a large section by itself. We don't really regulate them, and they have their own climate plan. So that sector is really in U of M's court. We recognize it in the plan. We talk a little bit about where those emissions come from. It's a pretty energy-intensive business to run major labs and all the buildings in square feet that they have.
• [00:03:55.40] We have commercial and industrial use, residential. Commercial and residential, mostly building. About half of our greenhouse gas emissions on the city portion are business and residences and buildings and then transportation at 22%.
• [00:04:14.99] One of my favorite graphics. And thank you, Rebecca Filbey. I made her make this and count the pixels. This represents all the greenhouse gas emissions at the city. Let me see if I can-- this little square here is every bit of municipal greenhouse gas emissions, so all the delivering services, making water, treating wastewater, running garbage trucks, running police trucks.
• [00:04:43.01] All the work that we've done at the city that we get all this great credit for really is 1.2% of the total climate conditions for the city. The big block M obviously represents our next door neighbor and their emissions. And this grey area is our challenge. How do we get businesses and residences involved and engaged at the community level around climate change?
• [00:05:05.85] And that's our big challenge. That's what the climate plan starts. You're likely to be hearing things in the near future about a new opportunity to bring folks together to work on the climate plan together at the community level.
• [00:05:20.86] Things that we've done at the City. We claim to make about 32% of our electricity from renewable sources. We have two dams at the city the generate hydro, two that do not. And the reason the two don't is it doesn't make economic sense for us to put hydro back into them.
• [00:05:40.81] Natural gas and transportation. Most of that is from the use of biofuels and buying biodiesel and things like that. Just some pictures of a few of the kind of green energy things going on in the city, Barton Dam, biodiesel in our vehicles, landfill gas in the middle, LED streetlights. We have a brand new Pays Program. We bond money and can loan it out to businesses to help fund their energy efficiency investments.
• [00:06:18.22] Community energy use. I think the most important thing here is look at that $430 million a year in community energy spend. And electricity and natural gas I think we calculated that alone was about $250 million a year. You listen to the energy efficiency people, and they tell you you can save about 10% with caulk. Well, that's about $25 million a year in the local economy. Great reason to pay attention to that. It's also huge greenhouse gas emission benefits. If we can get that to happen.
• [00:06:51.86] This is what the climate plan says so far. So between 2000 and 2010, our greenhouse gas emissions for the community have gone up by just less than 1%. Relatively speaking, given all the growth in the community and the building, that's not a bad result.
• [00:07:11.22] The problem is we've set some big goals. We're trying to get an 8% drop by 2015, 25% percent by 2025. And we think we need to get to 90% reduction by 2050.
• [00:07:27.71] And the plan's got a laundry list of things that we can do. Again, it deals with it in four different sectors. And again, go to the website. There's a great executive summary that's pretty readable and accessible. Lot of detail in the big plan and the appendices.
• [00:07:48.19] The takeaway message is energy in buildings is really the big area, using renewable energy and figuring out a way to conserve the energy we use in the way we heat and cool our buildings. Transportation is important, but really we're trying to tell people air ceiling and installation is the most important thing you can do in your house. And then what we're trying to do as a municipality is work with our local utility to make renewables more available in the community.
• [00:08:16.87] Here's a graph of kind of the status quo. Where the plan will get us down to 25% by 2025. How we get down here there's a lot of unknowns, but most of it's going to be around renewable energy. Really, a radical change in the way we generate and use energy.
• [00:08:41.10] I'm going to give you a little example of something that Dave was part of. We have a Green Fleets policy. The goal was try and drop fuel, gasoline, and diesel use by the City in the way we deliver services by 10% by 2012.
• [00:08:56.98] We just went through this. There's different explanations for why the use went up and down. If we get a really bad winter and we have a bunch of extra snow plows, all of a sudden our diesel use is going to go up. We built a new facility on the south side of town where all our vehicles are stored now. We're not sure, but we think fuel use went up because those vehicles have to travel a little more.
• [00:09:25.00] Bottom line though, gas and diesel use is down 14%, almost 15% from the baseline. And fuel use in BTUs is down by 12.4%. With some paying attention, with some right sizing of the fleet, with a focus on more fuel efficient vehicles, you can get some real change in the way you're doing business.
• [00:09:51.76] This is the same calculation but looks at the O2 emissions. So we're calculating that we've dropped carbon emissions in the way we use fuel at the City by 12%. Again, City greenhouse gas emissions are only 1.2% of the community. But what it does show, again, is with a little bit of paying attention and coming up with a plan you can actually make real and measurable progress toward your goals.
• [00:10:19.29] So I'll stop there, and I want to thank Nate Geisler, who's our energy guy at the City who couldn't be here tonight. I think there's Lamaze classes or something. Rebecca Filbey at CEC, Jenny Oorbeck at CEC are both very involved in helping get our climate plan looking and as complete as it was. So thank you for coming tonight. Be happy to answer questions later.
• [00:10:41.98] [APPLAUSE]
• [00:10:47.96] MARK RABINSKY: Following all of the presentations, we're going to have a table up there for the presenters to sit at. They'll be able to answer any questions that you may have. What I'm going to talk about tonight is Plug-In Ready Michigan.
• [00:11:04.04] Plug-In Ready Michigan was a project that Clean Energy Coalition worked on from about January 2012 to we finished in November 2012. It was a really quick project. But it was to prepare the state for electric vehicles. First a little bit of background on Clean Energy Coalition.
• [00:11:25.46] I mentioned we're a 501(c)(3) nonprofit in Ann Arbor. We're a nonpartisan organization dedicated to promoting clean energy technologies as a way to create healthier, energy-independent communities. We implement, manage, and evaluate cost-effective market transformation projects and programs in the building and transportation sectors.
• [00:11:50.45] We're split up into three divisions. We have a Structure Division, a Communities Division, and a Mobility Division. In the fall of 2011, we were selected by the US Department of Energy through their Clean Cities program to bring together 40 stakeholders from around the state to work on a project to prepare the state of Michigan for electric vehicle. Those are a list of the stakeholders. There's actually a lot more stakeholders that weren't officially part of that but still participated in this process.
• [00:12:27.72] In, as I mentioned before, November 2012, we came out with the final plan. And the final plan is available on our website, cec-mi.org/plug-in. It's about 140 page. It really details everything you could possibly want if you have a city and you want to make it ready for plug-in electric vehicles. And if it's not in there, just call me and ask me, and I can tell you what the rest of it is.
• [00:12:57.70] A little bit of background on electric vehicles and specifically on what are referred to as the charging stations the electric vehicles require. An EVSE, otherwise known as Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, is the charging equipment. Some dos does nots. I thank Mark [? Freder ?] from McNaughton-McKay for these slides.
• [00:13:23.56] The charging station does not charge the battery with DC current. There's a charging station on the electric vehicle itself. It's just supplying electricity to it. When you're talking about an actual charger, most of that charging equipment is on the vehicle itself.
• [00:13:41.33] It does function as a safety disconnect switch. There's no actual electricity coming out of the electric vehicle supply equipment itself until it's plugged into the vehicle because there's communication that goes back and forth. As opposed to a basic plug that you would have to plug into something, there's no communication line that goes back and forth. So there could be some active energy coming out of that.
• [00:14:07.62] As I mentioned, the communication with the vehicle. The communication with the vehicles is vital for a number of other reasons too. It tells the vehicle when it's plugged in, when it should start charging. The vehicle can tell it when to stop charging so that the battery is not overcharged.
• [00:14:26.88] If the plug is still plugged into the vehicle, it won't let the vehicle drive away from the charging station so that you're not having the instance sometimes when you see on the news somebody drove away with the gasoline pump still in the vehicle. That's not going to happen with electric vehicle because the electric vehicle is smart enough to not to happen.
• [00:14:50.25] These are some trends in electric vehicle supply equipment. These were provided to us by Pike Research. They're expecting sales for Michigan should be ranked about 12th for EVSE sales nationwide. Now that's just the electric vehicle supply equipment sales.
• [00:15:14.64] California is obviously one of the highest on there because they're pushing it a lot more with incentives. I think they are a little bit more gung ho and a little more proactive in terms of pushing electric vehicles.
• [00:15:32.46] Annual PEV sales. These are from all across the country. Detroit MSA ranks 13th amongst US cities for PEV sales. By 2017-- these are still a year old almost. These numbers almost 2-years old that we're seeing. They've even jumped up a lot more, especially with the recent trends from Tesla.
• [00:16:00.57] Detroit MSA, Pike Research expects, by 2017 there to be 33,400 PEVs on the road. I expect that to be even more than that just based on recent trends. And they're expecting PEV to account for about 2% of Michigan sales by 2017, which is a pretty significant amount. And when you start comparing that to when hybrid electric vehicles first came on the scene, it's actually really beating hybrid electric vehicles the growth rates on these vehicles. It's pretty exciting.
• [00:16:35.43] We also we did a mapping model. We took the information from Pike Research, and we mapped it out where they expect to see the major trends in electric vehicles for the future. The slide on your right I believe is 2020, and I think the slide on your left is 2015 or 2016. So we're expecting to see really high growth rates around the Detroit area and Ann Arbor area.
• [00:17:09.15] Some of the factors that play into this are typically if there's already a lot, a big percentage of hybrid electric vehicle owners in that area, then those areas that we're expecting to see electric vehicle owners. And anybody that's lived in Ann Arbor for the past 10 years know there's a lot of hybrid electric vehicles in Ann Arbor. That's another factor in why we're seeing a lot of electric vehicles probably because we care about the environment.
• [00:17:36.29] Areas where there are universities or college settings are also expected to see higher levels. And then areas that already have electric vehicle supply equipment installed are expecting to see higher jumps in electric vehicles. And you see on the southwest side, that's the Kalamazoo area. And at the time of the study, they had a lot of electric vehicle charging stations installed in that area. That might be one of the reasons that it was expected to see so much growth during that time. But you also notice the Ann Arbor areas and the Detroit areas are expected to see really high growth in that time as well.
• [00:18:20.05] A little bit more background on the charging stations themselves. There are three levels that are recognized by the Society of Automotive Engineers. There's the level 1, a level 2, and then DC fast charging. They're actually some more levels, but these are the main ones that actually you'll see in the real world.
• [00:18:41.29] AC level 1 is when you plug the vehicles just in 120 volt outlet. And you can do this in your home if you-- in Dave's case if you have a Chevy Volt-- if you take that home and plug it into your wall outlet and just 120 volt charger, you can probably charge your vehicle in 8 to 10 hours if it was fully empty-- if the battery was fully depleted.
• [00:19:08.56] If it was an AC level 2, now that's at 240 volts, and it's going to charge it about twice as fast. People typically say about four to six hours. Those you'll need a dedicated station for. The vehicle manufacturers for the level 1 they'll provide you with a cord set that you can plug into your wall and will connect to your vehicle.
• [00:19:30.53] But the level 2 chargers you'll need a dedicated charging station for that. And that's typically what you see in municipal settings, what you'll see around Ann Arbor and other areas or businesses if they have put in charging stations. A lot of folks that do purchase charging stations will put one of these in their garage so they can charge it a little bit faster.
• [00:19:58.87] The DC or what's known as the faster, quick charger, those can charge electric vehicles in as little as 30 minutes, depending on the vehicle itself. Now they won't work with certain types of vehicles. They'll only work-- right now there's one. The Nissan LEAF has the ability to quick charge and the Mitsubishi i-MiEV has the ability to quick charge. Tesla has the ability of what they've labeled as the supercharger that can charge at higher amperage rate. That's showing a lot of promise too.
• [00:20:34.89] Those are the three different levels. There's no quick-charging options for the Chevy Volt right now although in the future that may change because the SAE at the time that the Chevy Volt was manufactured hadn't finalized their quick-charging setting yet.
• [00:20:58.48] I'll go back one. The bottom piece right there that's the J1772. That's what SAE has labeled that as the official connector for electric vehicles because it wouldn't make sense if every electric vehicle manufacturer had a completely different cord set. So that's the one that they finalized on.
• [00:21:21.20] And you'll see in the top part there you'll see the J1772. And the bottom one is what they're proposing as the DC fast charger. You'll see two other little inlets on the bottom, but it's still backwards compatible with the J1772. So cars that come out with that standard will still be able to charge on other standards.
• [00:21:41.85] The one on the right is the Tesla. It's an upside down T. If you turn it right side up, it'll look like a T. That's one of the Tesla chargers. And in the bottom left there, the one on the left is the CHAdeMO charger, right next to the J1772. So the CHAdeMO charger is the quick charge. And that standard was developed by the Japanese auto-- actually, I think it was developed by their electric company.
• [00:22:10.62] There's a number of different mounting options. The one on the left there is one of the charging stations in, I think, the Forest-- Church Street maybe. That's one of the ones in Ann Arbor. But you could also do any kind of wall mounted on a home as well. If you want to purchase an outdoor charging station, make sure it's compatible with certain NEMA ratings and it can actually be installed outside.
• [00:22:42.42] There are [INAUDIBLE] amounts. Those are the SPX models on the right and Eaton models on the left. Those are the two charging stations in Clean Energy Coalition's parking lot.
• [00:22:57.18] There are a number of different revenue options if you're looking at installing a charging station. There are credit card readers. There are plug-in keypads that you can assign to people. Then there are subscription services as well that you can sign up for and pay a certain amount if you want, like a monthly amount to have the ability to charge at those areas.
• [00:23:20.33] A lot-- I will say that almost the vast, vast, vast majority of institutions or businesses that install charging stations don't end up charging at all for it. And one of the reasons is that most of these options right here cost more than the electricity themselves. So they'd actually be saving money by just giving electricity away for free because it's not worth their time or effort to either do the billing on the back end or install the hardware upfront. So most of them don't even install the revenue options. And I think Dave will talk a bit more about that too.
• [00:23:59.53] To access them there's a manual on/off switch. You can have an RFID badge if you wanted to, other pay systems. Often places will just limit the parking spaces to passholders too.
• [00:24:15.50] Dave will talk a little bit about the metering and monitoring for the Ann Arbor system, which I think has a great display for showing where it's charging and how much they've used over time. It's really important that-- well, for us at least, it's nice for us to see how much people are charging over time, and it's nice to look at the trends that are being set and how much it correlates with the adoption of electric vehicles going forward.
• [00:24:49.99] For the consumer or for the owner of the electric vehicle, there are different options out there where they can see whether or not that electric vehicle charging stations in use. So they can decide on what parking garage they want to park in or where they need to go for charging.
• [00:25:12.78] Signage was a really big, important part of the plan for us. We wanted to make sure that it was recognizable for electric vehicle owners and that anybody that would be coming up to that space we would recognize that this space was reserved for a certain reason. The sign on the left is what we along with OHM, Next Energy, Great Lansing Area Clean Cities, and the city of Auburn Hills came up with on this project to reserve the site.
• [00:25:49.49] That's been adopted by the Michigan Manual of Traffic Codes and Standards. So we're excited about that. So if you want to put a book a charging station right now, this is the recommended signage that you use at the site to make sure that's
• [00:26:05.51] Reserved. And you'll notice it looks a lot like the handicap sign, and that's on purpose too because it's already recognizable for people, but we put that little signage at the bottom where it says charging stations so that folks don't also confuse it for a handicapped spot. And then we use the EV symbol, which kind of looks like a gas tank, which a lot of EV drivers hate that symbol because it looks like a fill-up station. But it has the plug on it as well.
• [00:26:36.44] Also we create warning stickers for them because we're at the stage right now where we're not going to start fining people. It's not really my recommendation that cities start writing tickets right off the bat for people that are parking in charging stations because we're still so much in the education and outreach phase of that. In the future if we start seeing repeat violations, then absolutely we should head towards that.
• [00:27:03.86] And then on the far right there, you'll see that the payments stencil that we've created just to add another level of visual interaction that tells the driver this space is reserved for you maybe if you have an electric vehicle.
• [00:27:22.83] ADA was another important part of this. There's no ADA standards for electric vehicles right now. There are recommendations out there. There's 1,000 recommendations out there. There was some concern that we may need to both reserve a station for someone who is handicapped and drives an electric vehicle in some cases. But if you drive an electric vehicle and you're not handicapped, you can't park in that spot.
• [00:27:50.80] That was a big concern for some business owners because we're going to install a charging station that's only for handicapped people that own electric vehicle. That such a small, small percentage of the population right now. We've been working on this, and what we've come up with was to just make the charging stations that are installed right now handicap accessible. And in the future if you have a whole parking lot full of charging stations that-- or a whole parking lot where all the spaces have charging stations in them, then those will be the ones that are defined for a person that's handicapped.
• [00:28:29.53] We've done this in phases too. There's a lot more detail in the plan about how we recommend phasing electric vehicle charging stations into a parking lot. There's recommendations in there about parallel on-street parking, which the City of Auburn Hills installed one in their downtown area, the parallel parking for on-street parking.
• [00:28:55.36] Angle parking. Our recommendation on where to site the charging stations. Different public parking. Early on, you want to maximize the amount of use. But there's also the added problem of, I don't want to tear up my parking lot to lay conduit down to have to install these charging stations. We recommended putting them on some islands. It might make sense going forward right now because you don't want to stub up a lot of conduit that might not have a charging station on it right now. So the island made a lot of sense.
• [00:29:35.48] The City of Auburn Hills also recommended that any news site developments at least lay the conduit for electric vehicles right now. Conduit, pennies. They're not making them install the electric vehicle charging stations themselves. They're just saying in 10 years if you do want to have electric vehicle charging stations in that parking lot at least you got half the work done. You don't need to tear up your parking lot.
• [00:30:07.68] We think that makes a lot of sense. This is really the meaning behind what a plan is. This is a plan. You're planning for the future. We're happy that-- I think the last I looked I think Steve Cohen, the director of economic development over at the City of Auburn Hills, had said-- I think he had almost 100% success rate just asking developers to install the conduit in their parking lots.
• [00:30:38.59] We have recommendations are parking garages. And that's it for me. Like I said, the plan's available online cec-mi.org/plugin. And if you have any other questions, I spent a year just on electric vehicles, so I probably have the answers for you. Please email me if you have any more questions. Thank you very much.
• [00:30:58.76] [APPLAUSE]
• [00:31:02.13] MARK RABINSKY: Next, the man, the myth, Dave Konkle he's here. Thanks for joining us, Dave.
• [00:31:15.84] DAVE KONKLE: Hi, I'm Dave Konkle. I am now the energy programs director for the Ann Arbor Downtown Development Authority. Before that, I was the energy coordinator for the City of Ann Arbor for 20 years. And I have to say that, well, that energy coordinator for the City, the Downtown Development Authority was a great partner to our efforts.
• [00:31:37.76] In fact they funded the farmers' markets solar energy system that is at the farmers' market. They helped us put in the LED lighting downtown Ann Arbor, which was a world-class installation, first in the world to do that, brought people from countries all over this planet to Ann Arbor to see what we did here with LED lighting.
• [00:32:00.33] And I'm going to talk about two programs that we're doing right now at the DDA. One is the Electric Car Charger Program, and I'm going to cover that second. And first is our Energy Efficiency Program. What we're talking about here is titled The Downtown Energy Conservation Grant Program, providing free energy audits for downtown businesses.
• [00:32:20.51] Definition of downtown business, be in the DDA territory. It's a politically defined territory, and we will give you a free energy out and assist you in getting energy improvements done to your facility. This is a map after year one of the businesses that applied for energy audits and the energy audits that we did. There were 40 of them or 45, something like that, in the first year all over the downtown area.
• [00:32:47.42] The purple line is the definition of the DDA territory in Ann Arbor, obviously a popular project and lots of businesses-- you'd recognized these businesses all over Ann Arbor. These are the businesses they came to DDA and said, how can I lower my energy costs, make my ability to have a successful business in downtown more sustainable?
• [00:33:13.18] So we provided them first with a really high-quality energy audit. This is a technical energy analysis. This one is for the Mav building. What it has in it is an analysis of their energy use. So down in the lower left hand corner is a piece of that, and that's just an analysis of the envelope of the building, how much heat loss is going through the walls, the windows, whatever.
• [00:33:37.96] We did an analysis of their total energy use per square foot and figured out where it all went and told them about how their building works, energy-wise how much you spend a year on energy. $50,000 a year or whatever you are currently paying for energy in you're building. Then we give them basically a checklist of things that could do. The upper right corner is a copy of that spreadsheet, ECM, Energy Conservation Measures, that they could choose to do.
• [00:34:06.20] It tells you how much it costs to add wall insulation, $7,100, whatever. The cost savings, $1,000 a year. Nine-year payback on that. I really can't read very well from over here, but I think that's what it says. But for each measure, it tells you what is it, what would it cost you to implement it, how much would you say by doing it, and it creates a decision tool for these businesses to decide, well, why don't we put in some of those compact fluorescent lights and put some occupancy sensors in, or whatever?
• [00:34:38.98] This was our goal. We did that. 2008 through 2011, 118 buildings in downtown Ann Arbor were given energy audits. That's a lot of buildings. There were probably 35 restaurants in there. It was 1,600,000 square feet of retail space that's been energy audited to teach people now understand their energy use and what they can do to save energy.
• [00:35:05.33] We helped a number of those businesses with rebates. I don't have that on this thing. I might have it another one. We found energy saving measures installed cost of $4,600,000 they could be invested in energy saving in these commercial facilities that would save almost $1 million a year in energy. This is us helping them understand how to be a more efficient business, how to contribute to things like our climate goals, like our energy goals. At DDA, we saw this as a great way to assist those people who are in our district and rely on us for support.
• [00:35:44.36] This is an early graph just showing us cost per square foot of a number of different buildings. Right now I literally have this graph of all 125, 130 audits that we've done. And when you see-- got to walk over here-- any of those lines that stick up well above the others are restaurants.
• [00:36:06.48] I'll just tell you right now, restaurants are really heavy energy users. They are the ones that are really benefiting the most from these energy audits. They are learning a lot about saving energy at the restaurants. A couple of the buildings. There's lots of buildings in downtown Ann Arbor that used to be houses and now they are businesses.
• [00:36:25.28] We give them an energy audit. We show them bottom line if they do air ceiling and insulate the crawl space and their boiler pipelines in the attic and on and on through all of those measures spend $3,000 they can save $684 in energy cost. In this particular case, DDA had a program where we would help them. We would pay for half of the cost of them doing that measure. They had a payback of 4.6 years or with our rebates 2.3 years.
• [00:36:53.61] The Neutral Zone Teen Center. We help them out a lot. We help them put new-- really it was the rooftop units, their air conditioning and heating units for the Teen Zone. DDA helped them do that $49,000 in improvements that saved about $5,600 in energy.
• [00:37:15.17] First National Bank building. What I'm trying to do here is show you little buildings like converted houses, nonprofits like the Teen Center, big buildings like First National, all part of our program. The Mav building where we help them put-- those are solar collectors up there. The Mav building decided after doing these energy improvements that they would also invest $121,000 in solar collectors on top of their building. They did a $174,000 project for $21,700 worth of energy savings.
• [00:37:51.82] Arbor Brewing Company. We help them put solar energy and really do some very fun, experimental things on how to improve the energy efficiency and incorporate renewable energy into a brewery.
• [00:38:06.28] We are currently running a program right now where we are still giving energy audits for free to downtown businesses. We have about four in progress right now. Good Time Charlie's is one we just completed. I'm working with them now to talk about how they can finance these things.
• [00:38:25.28] We have a partnership with a program called Michigan Saves financing that provides $150,000 in financing for energy savings with a 24-hour around in approval. You come to us and you say, I would like to borrow the money to do this project. I don't have this money upfront. I'm a business. I'm a restaurant. I'm a whatever. I need $112,000.
• [00:38:49.38] In 24 hours, you will know if you've got that loan or not. And you can proceed. And we will help them proceed with that, work with local contractors, whatever it takes to help our downtown businesses get more energy efficient. It's a fantastic program. There's nothing like it anywhere else in the United States. It is Ann Arbor leading the way again.
• [00:39:10.69] Now I'm going to talk about car charger, another project that we did in Ann Arbor. We have installed right now 18 electric car chargers around downtown Ann Arbor. We have three more that are going in into the new structure on Washington and First I believe that building is going up.
• [00:39:29.78] We have the signage that you recognize. We got much help from Clean Energy Coalition, and much thanks goes to them. Through them we got a grant from the federal government to fund the entire cost of these 18 electric car chargers that went in.
• [00:39:47.74] Anybody who's curious, about $5,000 per charger was our install cost for these things. It could be less, but we had a monitoring program put in, which I'll talk about a little bit later. That was about $1,200 of the cost.
• [00:40:03.96] So what you've got here is a picture of the sign and some of the signage outside of the parking lots. The various places where you see that electric vehicle little symbol means there's electric chargers there. That's the library lot in the lower right, and it's not that unusual to see all six charger spots filled up in the library lot.
• [00:40:26.42] After doing this project, I felt it necessary for me to go out and buy a Volt. So I drive into Ann Arbor. I live in Grass Lake, and I come in hoping to get a place to charge my car, and I am relieved if I come to the library lot and there's a space for me. There's usually three or four at least there every time I come in. And only a couple of times have I had to turn around and leave because I couldn't plug in.
• [00:40:52.14] So where are these chargers? Fourth and William parking structure, Ann Ashley parking structure, Maynard parking structure, South Forest parking structure, Fourth and Ann surface lot. And I will tell you right now that they're in the back northwest corner of the lot. We chose that position because it has the most sunshine exposure. And we have a goal of trying to put up a carport with solar collectors it and make that a solar car charger. We're working on that one. And finally, the Library Lane structure.
• [00:41:25.79] You can go to our web page. DDA has a web page. It'll show you where every one of these car chargers are. And not only that, but when you click on them, it'll tell you if they're being used at this particular moment are not. So as you come into town or whatever, you can actually get a little app for your iPhone.
• [00:41:44.16] You can look this up. You can come in, and you can say, oh, man I wanted to park at Ann Ashley, but those two are full, but there's one empty these three blocks away, and go to that one. Real-time information available on our website. I guess that's what this slide says.
• [00:42:00.54] This is more about our website. It shows you click from the map there's a way to go and list all of the parking. For instance, Library Lane has six chargers. So if you look at that, you'll see that four of the six are currently in use, and two of them are available. Forest Avenue, their both, they're always full. Never try to charge at Forest.
• [00:42:23.10] There literally is a clan of, I think it's up to eight electric car drivers, now that all know each other. They all plan for using that charger. They share them. The reality is that for a Volt driver I can get fully charged in three hours. They park there all day. So they have little notation, little system where once their car is charge they call the next guy, and they come and they just move their car and let the next guy charge.
• [00:42:51.19] People ask me, well, what about the future when you got more cars than you have chargers and somebody parks there and they're done charging in three hours, what's your policy going to be? It's an interesting question. It almost demand something like valet parking if you expect to think that you can move one car out and move another in.
• [00:43:11.71] But at $5,000 per charger, it's a pretty big investment. We will never make that money back by selling electricity or whatever. We do that in DDA in downtown Ann Arbor because we believe it attracts people to downtown Ann Arbor who shop at our businesses and go back and tell other people how great Ann Arbor is. And they expect us to have things like electric car chargers.
• [00:43:37.04] Down on the right lower corner is a graph that's available from our web page that shows this is a particular car charger and it shows its use every day. It's indicative of most. It's used almost every day. We are getting something like 80% use of our car chargers each day. It's seldom the one isn't used. And that I think Mark can tell you is pretty unusual.
• [00:44:04.42] In a whole lot of other places where car chargers have put in, they sit idle. I went to the City of Dearborn who were bragging about the 10 chargers that they put across the street from city hall in their parking lot. I was there to give a talk at their City Hall. I drove my Volt there, and I drove into their parking structure, and they had four on the first floor, three on the second, and three on the-- something like that.
• [00:44:30.16] There was one car charging on the first floor, and the other three were parked with regular vehicles. I couldn't use them. All of the other ones were all parked up with regular vehicles. They didn't have the signage that Mark showed you that's recommended to tell people these are reserved for electric car chargers. And people were just parking on them, and I couldn't plug in.
• [00:44:51.63] As far as usage goes, this is the data. It's probably easily understood that I have to do. It's a federal grant, so I do quarterly reports every three months to the DOE. So the first report went in, and we had-- oh, I don't know. I guess it'd be about 670 kilowatts worth of electricity that went out of our chargers through all the various-- and the colors show which location, how much energy.
• [00:45:22.49] That more than tripled by the next quarter. That more than tripled by the next quarter. I can't explain why it didn't move much by the next quarter, holidays or something. But the last quarter, which ended July-- OK the next one's due in September-- end of June, we again saw 20% increase in usage of the electric car chargers.
• [00:45:48.45] So you can look along the bottom, and it's a chart that shows you just exactly how many kilowatt hours went out from each of these structures. We actually have that data all the way down to specific chargers, so we can tell how much use we're getting from each charger. Bottom line, structure totals, 29,000 kilowatt hours that we have given away basically for electric car charging.
• [00:46:13.80] Electric car averages about three and a half miles per kilowatt hour. So it's over 100,000 miles in electric car driving that has been achieved through our charging program so far. We knew last January that we were in trouble when we built this system and opened it up, and that would have been a year ago June. It would've been June 2012 or so. We didn't know what to expect. How many of you have installed electric car chargers [INAUDIBLE]?
• [00:46:47.82] We had immediate demand. We had it go from people being really grateful that we had put the chargers in to now starting to demand that we put more in. And we are looking right now for ways to do that. We had a federal grant, like I said, that paid for all of our costs for going this far. But now it's time to figure out how the economics of this thing works.
• [00:47:12.51] Towards that end, we worked with the Energy Commission who wrote a resolution that was passed by the Energy Commission onto City Council, who passed this resolution on March 4, 2013, which includes resolved to ensure the EV, electric vehicle infrastructure installation is encouraged and that there are no inappropriate barriers to it, resolved that the City upcoming fleet purchases looked to use electric vehicles as much as possible, resolved that the Council directs the administrator to work with the Energy Commission, the Downtown Development Authority, University of Michigan, and other stakeholders to develop a citywide electric vehicle infrastructure plan for both the City fleet and public use. And finally direct the city administrator to report back to City Council within six months.
• [00:48:01.16] So that basically means about now there should be a report coming from the City on what has been accomplished in this desire to have a team plan, if you will, for how do we develop this electric infrastructure. DDA has always it feels taken the lead on energy programs and put them out there for people to use to learn from. We did our energy program to try to help the PACE program learn and be as good as it is.
• [00:48:33.14] Now we have the electric chargers out there, and now we need others to step up to the plate with us and figure out-- people want these. People are buying electric cars. So who benefits?
• [00:48:46.59] The electric car drivers certainly benefits if they have somewhere to plug in. The businesses benefit if it brings business to downtown Ann Arbor. The electric company benefits if they can sell more electricity. The car dealers benefit if they can sell more cars. Whoever benefits somehow we've got to figure out how the economics of putting these things into a city work. It's all new. It's new to everybody.
• [00:49:08.41] So I guess the last thing is, so this Friday afternoon there's a meeting between the City of Ann Arbor, the Downtown Development Authority, the Ecology Center, the Clean Energy Coalition, the DTE, and U of M to have this conversation or begin this process. We're going to try to figure out how much demand we have, how we can best meet that, who pays for it, how does this whole thing work, and continue to try to serve the public of Ann Arbor as best we can. And that's my presentation.
• [00:49:43.59] [APPLAUSE]
• [00:49:49.05] MARK RABINSKY: Thank you very much, Dave. Next up is Joel Baetens from Clean Energy Coalition. Joel is going to do a presentation on saving energy in buildings. Thank you very much, Joel. Take it away.
• [00:50:05.11] JOEL BAETENS: Good evening, everybody. My presentation on saving energy in buildings, I going to start off talking about Clean Energy Coalition. Mark already mentioned three divisions, and I'm talking about Structures. That's where I reside, working on commercial buildings.
• [00:50:25.55] I want to talk to you about a case study for the City of Monroe. What they have there is the City of Monroe has the Monroe Multi-Sports Complex. There is a soccer arena on one side. There also is an indoor sports arena for children, and they have an ice rink on the other side as well some office space in there and pro shop.
• [00:50:49.11] So what happened is the City of Monroe was looking to upgrade the lighting there. They had in mind LED to be the most efficient lighting. They had two different proposals, and they weren't sure which one was the one that they should select. So they approach Clean Energy Coalition to solve this dilemma.
• [00:51:08.15] So in analysis of these two bids, we found that neither one of them were good. They didn't know where to go next. So we offered to take over the process and put together specifications and advertise in an RFP/RFQ process, and we got about 15 contractors to respond to that and show up to a bid meeting.
• [00:51:33.41] Approximately 10 bids were submitted, and we helped walk through and select a contractor that was going to do that work for them. We did T12 to T8 for those, mostly for the interior and office spaces. They had high-intensity discharge lights throughout the interior and the exterior. Those went to mainly LED on the exterior and then T5 on the inside.
• [00:52:05.17] There's photo sensors on all of the lights on the inside in the arenas. And if I could back up and show that. The arena on the right hand side is a play arena for children during the day, so if they're just concentrated on one side the arena, lights automatically shut off on the other sides. It doesn't go completely dark in there because any time there is movement the lights will come on in that area. There is also a couple of lights in each side that stay on even if all the other ones go out for safety purposes.
• [00:52:40.68] This is what the results look like. They're able to drastically reduce the energy usage for the lighting systems. The 4.8-year payback includes the fees that Clean Energy Coalition charge them. So this is consulting, installation, everything out the door, with a calculated annual savings of $13,000 when in reality in the first month they saved $1,800, so on target to get way more than $13,000 in the year.
• [00:53:14.51] Now I want to talk about Rebuild Michigan. This is a program that Clean Energy Coalition has been doing for over five years that is through the Michigan Energy Office. And this is a grant that's provided through us to nonprofits that are greater than 30,000 square feet, spend more than $25,000 a year on annual energy usage and are basically in southeastern Michigan.
• [00:53:42.86] It could be anywhere in Michigan. There's other grantors that can do these free energy audits for them. So that's where the recipients are getting is a level 1 energy audit.
• [00:53:58.12] Dave Konkle is talk about the TEA. That's the level 2. These are an introductory energy evaluation, a level 1, so less detail. It doesn't have exactly payback periods, but it does have recommended measures for saving energy. There's some of the requirements I was talking about for the facilities to be eligible for Rebuild Michigan.
• [00:54:22.64] Some of the systems we're looking at in the facilities, of course, HVAC. That's heating, ventilation, air conditioning. The shell, how the occupants are using the building, lighting, and of course [? domestic ?] hot water. So put together an energy audit report that's pretty similar to how Dave explains him, a good introduction.
• [00:54:53.86] Rebuild Michigan 2013 is closed right now. We did all the ones that we could do. But the next program is going to start up in October. So I want to talk about that.
• [00:55:07.84] Right now this would be my opportunity to ask the audience here and future viewers of this presentation that if you meet these requirements back here, a nonprofit, greater than 25,000 square feet, greater than 20,000 [INAUDIBLE] energy use, then please contact me and see if you can be eligible for the 2014 Rebuild Michigan program.
• [00:55:33.04] Instead of a free energy audits, it's now half price. So you would get an incentive to pay for approximately half of the energy evaluation. See what else is on here. You can contact me. My contact information is on here on the last slide. That is the end of my presentation.
• [00:55:57.63] [APPLAUSE]
• [00:56:02.55] MARK RABINSKY: So now call up all the presenters to have just a discussion and answer any of the questions that anybody in the audience may have.
• [00:56:13.31] TIM GRIMES: OK. Here's a question. You guys all ready?
• [00:56:15.86] MARK RABINSKY: Sure.
• [00:56:16.55] TIM GRIMES: OK. Here's a question.
• [00:56:18.38] AUDIENCE: Thank you. This 25,000 square foot requirement can that be satisfied by a condominium where they have 25,000 square feet would include private areas as well as the common areas in the condominium?
• [00:56:34.76] JOEL BAETENS: Sir, to answer your question, the Rebuild Michigan program is for nonprofits.
• [00:56:39.66] AUDIENCE: Right.
• [00:56:40.36] JOEL BAETENS: So if it's a condominium I would-- the association would be a nonprofit, is that correct?
• [00:56:45.38] AUDIENCE: Absolutely.
• [00:56:46.44] JOEL BAETENS: OK. Then I would say that if there was more 25,000 square feet of the general space--
• [00:56:52.74] AUDIENCE: No, [INAUDIBLE]--
• [00:56:54.03] JOEL BAETENS: --the combined--
• [00:56:54.91] AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]--
• [00:56:56.88] JOEL BAETENS: If it was including the--
• [00:56:58.30] AUDIENCE: Private space.
• [00:56:58.97] JOEL BAETENS: --tenants spaces--
• [00:56:59.88] AUDIENCE: Yeah.
• [00:57:00.39] JOEL BAETENS: --it might not count.
• [00:57:01.73] AUDIENCE: OK. In other words, I should look into it further. I really don't know for sure.
• [00:57:09.03] TIM GRIMES: Another question? Over here. Just a second.
• [00:57:20.11] AUDIENCE: Had a question about the dam. You had mentioned the dam earlier in your talk.
• [00:57:23.57] MARK RABINSKY: Sure.
• [00:57:23.99] AUDIENCE: The Ann Arbor dam. I had a chance to view the movie Damocracy recently. I don't know if you heard of that one. It's focusing on the really super large dams that are 5,000 meters in length and what no. So that doesn't really compare. But one of the very interesting statements they made in that is that dams are actually not green because the reservoirs actually trap sediment, which encourages methane production.
• [00:57:50.59] And I wonder if in the course of promoting this dam as well as a potentially green device-- whenever it was built. I know it was past tense-- but whether you take great care in looking at something like that and saying with potential loss of species, with sediments not been transferred downstream, with potential methane production, et cetera, is the dam actually green?
• [00:58:14.12] DAVE KONKLE: Right there a long history of this. The Huron River has got over 90 dams on it. Those dams were put in by DTE. We bought the dams in the '60s, help create Gallup Park, a bunch of other places. We also own most of the shoreline along the river. And so us owning the dams has kept the river pretty pristine. There's not much private ownership.
• [00:58:40.90] I'm getting to your answer. In 2006, we did a big Huron River impoundment management plan where the pros and cons of keeping dams, removing dams, a lot of that got discussed. And there's a big document on the City's website that talks about the various pros and cons.
• [00:58:59.45] As a matter of fact, when that plan was finished the Environmental Commission made a recommendation to remove a dam, and the Parks Commission made a recommendation to keep the dam. The outcome was the cascades were developed that removed the portage at Argo Dam. And but there's a lot of discussion about the pros and cons of dam removal in the Huron River and impoundment management plan.
• [00:59:28.90] To your point specifically, methane never came up. Lots of discussion about dams inhibit rivers for moving sediment, which is what rivers do. They do create impoundments. That's why we don't call them ponds in the plan. They're impoundments. They're not natural spaces.
• [00:59:47.01] There's a lot of questions about how fast ours are filling in. In some cases, we don't have good data on that. But no one brought up the idea of methane. We did look at removal costs. And a lot of times because you've got industry upstream of dams, often you can have some very contaminated sediments that are behind them.
• [01:00:11.29] Those costs can be fairly considerable managing those sentiments. Some early testing done by the Watershed Council didn't show any real deal breakers in the sediment upstream of Argo, which was the dam that they were discussing in 2006.
• [01:00:29.63] MARK RABINSKY: That's a really interesting question. I think those types of questions in our realm, especially the energy realm, about what is green and what isn't green can apply to so many parts about what we do. Even in the electric vehicle realm, it's saying, well, your vehicles are being run on coal because we're getting-- most of the electricity comes from coal. So somewhere down the line, you're not being as green or whatever.
• [01:00:55.05] And it's a balance that we have to be aware of all the time. But place like this, the public engagement and coming to meetings like this and giving back and telling everybody what we're doing and where we're going are really the important parts. And having this dialogue is so important.
• [01:01:17.37] TIM GRIMES: Someone else? Right here. OK.
• [01:01:22.23] AUDIENCE: I have a question with downtown, so I guess that'd be the DDA. I was just-- and I've notice this before-- but I was walking around downtown today doing errands, and I just saw a number of things that were to meet much more wasteful of energies than a lot of other things that the DDA seems to be dealing with.
• [01:01:48.58] For example, I'd say about a third of the stores-- it's 93 degrees outside today-- have their doors propped opened. If they have two doors, they have two doors propped opened and are air conditioning outside. There are multiple places on Main Street and other parts of downtown where places have had their outdoor lights-- and these aren't-- they're not advertising lights. They're not lights that are serving any kind of purpose.
• [01:02:18.75] These are light that are there for nighttime to light things up, but they've been on 24/7 for years, sometimes decades even. Places like since Cafe Felix opened up and Starbucks opened up, since Mongolian Grill opened up, and Jolly Pumpkin, and just really countless other places that 24/7 their lights are on.
• [01:02:41.34] I've a number of times stopped off at places, talk to owners, talk to management about that, about-- in a very polite, nice way, saying I know that you don't want to be wasting your own money on energy. You don't want to be polluting. But I'm just sort of given a like, what, what are you talking about?
• [01:03:03.86] DDA spending a lot of money on saving what I feel are relatively small amounts of energy, spending a lot of money, rather than attacking what I think are huge amounts when you add all these things up is much more energy being wasted than what can be saved by spending things on solar panels.
• [01:03:24.94] There's nothing wrong solar panels, but when you have on a private business that may not even getting tax credits and a payback of what used to be 25 years is maybe down to 15 years now, which is the article about what the Michigan Theater doing solar panels and they were talking a 15-year payback. These are things that have a payback instantly. And again, the total amount of energy is just tremendous.
• [01:03:50.64] And then also walking around, I noticed that since the library lot has been there the lights are on-- every time I walked there during the daytime all the outside light for lighting up at nighttime are on all day-- every time I'm there they're on during the daytime. I was there today at 3:30. They were on. At the library lot, the structure up over on top outside, every light there was on.
• [01:04:17.97] The new City Hall at the entry the lights outside have been on since that building was built. At the old Larcom, for eight years there were lights on on the exterior of the building, which I called up the City. I went and I talked to Mr. Conklin about it. Nothing got done about it. Again, to me, to attack the low-hanging fruit, the easy kinds of things to do rather than the things that we have to spend a lot of money in, is where we can work towards without spending a lot of money getting much more effective things done, saving much more energy than these other things.
• [01:05:03.89] And sort of a side issue, the county building and North Main Street up by I think it's Ann or Catherine, every outside light was on for years on that. I must have gone 30 or 40 times into that building, talk to people there about it that every single outside light is on 24/7. They need to be on at night. I don't have a problem with that.
• [01:05:31.07] I don't have a problem with people having advertising lights on, but just having outdoor lights that are designed only for nighttime on 24/7 and no one seems to care about, again, even at the new city building, the police station/courthouse, the outside lights at the front entry have been on every day, all day long since that place was built. Every city employee walks through there at some point probably a couple times a week, maybe even 10 times a week. Nobody seems to pay any attention or care about that.
• [01:06:04.36] DAVE KONKLE: Do you want to [INAUDIBLE]--
• [01:06:05.69] AUDIENCE: I could go on for probably--
• [01:06:06.57] DAVE KONKLE: --yes, I do.
• [01:06:07.03] AUDIENCE: --20 hours on this so. I mean with the DDA [INAUDIBLE]--
• [01:06:09.52] MARK RABINSKY: Dave, do you want to respond to that?
• [01:06:10.37] TIM GRIMES: You've got a question, so why don't we let Dave respond.
• [01:06:12.49] AUDIENCE: OK.
• [01:06:13.40] DAVE KONKLE: Well, and I think you have exactly the same kind of goal that DDA has. The best thing we can do is educate people. These businesses that we are working with a lot of them really hadn't paid attention to their energy bills at all.
• [01:06:28.73] So whether you walk in the door and you say, every time I walk by your business your door is wide open, and your lights are on. You're wasting energy. Or DDA delivers them a fairly technical report that shows that you just spent $10,400 on electricity last year. And in that report, it would have something like these lights are on 24 hours a day. You could put them on a photo sensors or a occupancy sensor or a timer, or we would show them ways that they could do it. The goals are the same.
• [01:07:00.55] I know as energy coordinator for the City that I was working with the fire departments trying to get them enthusiastic about energy improvements at the fire halls. And they would say to me, man, we go out on a call at 4:00 in the morning, and we can look out over the city, and we see those parking structures just lit up. Why don't you do something about that?
• [01:07:25.19] All I can say to you is you're right, but what we do is when we find energy waste, we try to tell people, at least let them make the decision. Today, those stores that decided to have their doors open and let the air conditioning out had either made that decision consciously knowing they're wasting energy or made that decision because they believe if your doors are open people are more likely to come into their business, and that was the wiser choice. I would happy to work with you to notice where the energy waste is and to tell people that it's going on. That's been our goal all along.
• [01:08:00.75] AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] it might be money well spent to actually-- rather than some things that have much longer paybacks hire someone to go around and talk to all the people downtown about this. That can be very cost effective, and maybe there could be some gentle arm-twisting of some kind of way. Think about it we--
• [01:08:28.49] DAVE KONKLE: Energy police we call that.
• [01:08:30.29] AUDIENCE: We fine people for littering. Someone throws a gum wrapper on the ground, they get fined. If someone's wasting energy, it's not just ugly. This causes more pollution. It contributes to asthma. I don't want to go overboard on that, but I think it to be an easy step to say if someone is just really-- especially, again, with businesses who are part of DDA to really have something there where there are some penalties for people-- again, having doors open with air conditioning on, I wouldn't do that. There could be some reason they want to draw people in for business.
• [01:09:08.31] Having outdoor lighting on that is designed just for lighting up areas at night during the daytime serves zero purpose. That this is pure waste on something like that. So, again, I would like to see DDA get more proactive in that and the city also. Again, even with-- we're talking about parking structures.
• [01:09:29.88] There been a number of parking structures where the top-- for example, the parking structure at East Ann and Ashley, there've been lights on the top deck that are on 24/7 since it was built. I've called up when there were people there. I mentioned to the people who are working there. The people who are working don't-- there isn't anything-- but even, again, at the county building, I went and I talked to Conan Smith about.
• [01:09:56.07] I figure I'm not going to talk to people at the desk. I'm going to go up to the top. I talk to him about it. Nothing. I finally found someone there who I just bugged and bugged and bugged at the desk who got all-- there was like 20-some lights outside that building-- they finally got them turned off. Again, to get education of City employees-- I know no one's here of County-- but County employees, DDA members to really sort of look at it like what simple, inexpensive, or no expense steps can be taken to take care of these things.
• [01:10:31.61] MARK RABINSKY: I can tell you that education and outreach--
• [01:10:35.11] AUDIENCE: Sorry, taking up the time.
• [01:10:36.17] MARK RABINSKY: That's OK. Education and outreach is the most difficult part of our job. Everyone here will agree with you on that. I think the term preaching to the choir came to mind as you were talking because we all realize that. We all realize how important that is.
• [01:10:52.59] I remember back in-- you still see it today-- grocery stores, you walk into a grocery store in the wintertime, and you have the heat blasting above you, and then you have the frozen food section wide open. Does that make sense? It took them so long to even put doors up there because they were concerned about people not wanting to do this to buy their ice cream.
• [01:11:16.68] The education and outreach and behavioral change there's entire classes taught about this, entire disciplines on this at the university, is not an easy task for us to do.
• [01:11:28.59] AUDIENCE: I do think a better job should be done--
• [01:11:31.28] MARK RABINSKY: A better job can be done anything in life, but it--
• [01:11:34.06] AUDIENCE: And a simple job. Again, one person just walk-- at the University of Michigan on campus, one day I just was walking through I saw 180 lights that were on during the daytime--
• [01:11:45.93] MARK RABINSKY: Well, I think you might--
• [01:11:46.47] AUDIENCE: --walking from one end to the other--
• [01:11:47.54] MARK RABINSKY: You've done that--
• [01:11:47.94] AUDIENCE: --[INAUDIBLE]--
• [01:11:48.84] MARK RABINSKY: --you've done walking--
• [01:11:49.50] AUDIENCE: --[INAUDIBLE]--
• [01:11:50.07] MARK RABINSKY: --I think you--
• [01:11:50.66] AUDIENCE: --walk-through and a do it and then just [INAUDIBLE]--
• [01:11:51.41] MARK RABINSKY: I think you realize how difficult it is though. You said you've talked to all these people. You've walk through, and you've talked to them--
• [01:11:58.47] AUDIENCE: Like at the university, it's not that difficult. At the university, someone above says, you need to take care of this.
• [01:12:02.53] MARK RABINSKY: It's not that simple. It's a difficult process. It's behavior change. You're taking someone out of their routine to do something that people in this room care about. Those people whose behavior we want to change aren't in this room right now, unfortunately.
• [01:12:22.80] We're talking to a different set of individuals who have different goals than us. So it's process. We're working extremely hard on it. We're working with the City. There's a number of nonprofits that are working on doing this.
• [01:12:40.46] We see it. Everyone in here sees this every time you walked by that door on a 90-degree day and the air conditioning's-- it's nice when you walk by on the street because you get a little blast of cold air. But you realize how energy intensive that is.
• [01:12:54.53] TIM GRIMES: And I do want to say we just have time for a few--
• [01:12:56.33] MARK RABINSKY: OK. OK.
• [01:12:56.60] TIM GRIMES: --more questions.
• [01:12:57.07] MARK RABINSKY: Is there anybody else?
• [01:12:57.45] TIM GRIMES: I know we spent a lot of time on this one.
• [01:12:59.40] MARK RABINSKY: That's OK. Are there any other questions?
• [01:13:05.15] TIM GRIMES: OK. Back over here. Hang on just a moment.
• [01:13:12.99] AUDIENCE: Dearborn was mentioned, and I've been there for both of their events for the parking lot lights that you had mentioned was on 24/7. Those were put in-- are the newer one. They were put in Adopt-A-Watt, and they use induction fluorescent light. I was wondering because you had mention HID in the new areas.
• [01:13:30.38] I was wondering if induction lighting is considered as part of the types of lighting that you're looking at. Because when they replaced the parking lot lamps, they're claiming 60% energy efficiency savings. Parking structure lights are one of those unfortunate things that have to be on 24/7 because you do get dark areas in the parking lot. You don't want to hit pedestrians. So they are in fact on 24/7.
• [01:13:50.19] And that's why organizations like Adopt-A-Watt, they consider that to be a type of a low-hanging fruit, if you will, because they are on 24/7, so let's attack that first and get them with the most efficient possible lighting. And with respect to economics, what they've established is let's go to all the local business and say, will you chip in X number of dollars or some small percentage to pay for this so that there is zero cost to taxpayers. And it's slowly but surely becoming a successful program.
• [01:14:21.26] I just curious, and I'm sure this is part of your job in trying to identify the best type of lighting technology that's available. But have you looked at that type yourself?
• [01:14:30.21] JOEL BAETENS: Yes, I had. I just want to reiterate that there are several different lighting technologies, and they will have different purposes. For example, an incandescent light might not be the best for a library basement. But maybe for heating an aquarium for an iguana, you'd still want an incandescent light.
• [01:14:46.24] The lighting specifications that I wrote for the City of Monroe there I had efficacy standards on there, lighting rendition, index numbers, and for lifetime of the lamps. So there was some of the bids came in with induction lighting. And we didn't go with those ones. But, yeah, there's use for each type of lighting I'd say.
• [01:15:18.89] MARK RABINSKY: Just for the record. I believe these are incandescent lights are they?
• [01:15:21.46] JOEL BAETENS: I'll take the Pepsi challenge on it.
• [01:15:22.82] MARK RABINSKY: OK.
• [01:15:23.69] JOEL BAETENS: I can feel them.
• [01:15:24.98] MARK RABINSKY: The Adopt-A-Watt program is a great program. Clean Energy Coalition has worked with the Adopt-A-Watt program in Dearborn. And we know that they're doing some projects in Royal Oak too. It a great-- it's a definition of public/private partnership.
• [01:15:44.45] We love seeing them moving forward. They're also a great way of paying for electric vehicle charging stations too. And that was one of the points of me wanting is to have this event here tonight was for businesses and getting them involved in energy efficiency and teaching them about efficiency and other ways of being more proactive in promoting other technologies, like electric vehicles.
• [01:16:10.70] So we're just hoping to see it go a little bit forward. Maybe something like that could be adopted within in Ann Arbor as well.
• [01:16:19.15] TIM GRIMES: Another question at all? OK. Well--
• [01:16:24.60] MARK RABINSKY: Yeah, I think with that--
• [01:16:25.22] TIM GRIMES: --well, thank you then.
• [01:16:25.55] MARK RABINSKY: --I just want to thank everybody for coming here tonight. I think it's so important. So thank you very much. A round of applause for our speakers.
• [01:16:32.42] [APPLAUSE]